One Man’s Journey of Discovering Himself and the Fragile Nature of The World Economy

Tom Dyson was the co-founder of the Palm Beach Research Group with Mark Ford – which became one of the most successful financial publications.
You can follow Tom on Instagram HoboFamily and his new newsletter ‘Postcards from the Fringe.’
In this episode, you’re going to listen to Tom’s story of divorce and business failure to traveling the world with his three young children and ex-wife. Before leaving, Tom sold all of his assets and possessions and bought physical gold.
Tom’s transformational story re-invigorated his passion for writing about finance, investing, and economics. His refined perspective is almost prophetic, given the current state of the world.

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About Tom Dyson

Tom Dyson is the editor of Postcards from the Fringe. He’s a former London banker and money manager. He’s currently traveling around the world with his ex-wife, three kids, and a suitcase.


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Training The Next Generation With Aaron Chapman

TWS 10 | Training The Next Generation


Humans are creatures of habit, which is why from an early age, people need to be educated about which habits are good and which are potentially destructive. Training the next generation is really the best way to ensure that these habits, values, and motivations are instilled from an early age and not so easily discarded once they go into working environments. Aaron Chapman is a veteran of the finance industry working at SecurityNational Mortgage Company. Aaron speaks to Patrick Donohoe about when to instill these habits and the best ways to keep them ingrained. Is it time for you to learn some new habits?

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Training The Next Generation With Aaron Chapman

We’re going to dive deeper into residential real estate investing. My guest has been in the industry for quite a long time and has a different angle. We took the conversation in a direction that you will be definitely inspired by. My guest is Aaron Chapman. It was an in-person interview. The last couple had been in-person video type of interviews. Make sure you head over to our YouTube channel because those interviews and the video are housed there. Aaron Chapman is a veteran in the finance industry. He started in 1997. Since entering the finance industry, his clientele has ranged from purchasing their first home, building their dream home or investing in multiple properties for long-term cashflow. He considers his expertise complicated. He’s presently ranked in the top 10% of the 300 licensed loan originators in the United States, which is a huge feat. Aaron and his wife also take huge pride in a family business structure that they have developed. They openly discuss their assets, their reason for being, and their mission. They have created a system of accountability with their kids, which is unprecedented.

You will learn about that in the interview. The kids are very much engaged and also are able to participate. Aaron and his wife also retired from nine years of service with the Pinal County Sheriff’s Office Volunteer Rescue Unit. They both retired as team leaders. During that stint, they experience an excess of 50 rescues per year. In many cases, the missions received international media and local attention because they were able to preserve lives in extreme circumstances. This guy is amazing. You are going to be inspired by how he thinks and what he is motivated by. I can’t wait for you to meet him. Without further delay, please welcome my guest and my friend, Aaron Chapman.

Thank you for tuning into this episode. It’s going to be an awesome interview. You don’t know it yet, but you will soon know. Aaron, it is awesome to have you.

I was impressed with what I saw because we walked up to this place and like, “Are we going to that building?” We get in and it’s like, “This place is awesome.” You let me in, which is a good thing. People let me come in, hang out, meet your staff and see everybody here. You’ve got a cool operation. It’s a cool looking place.

I also tell you about my first impression of this building when we first moved in. There used to be a Mexican restaurant and a nightclub. I didn’t know. We came in on a Saturday night over the holidays. They had this runway out on the patio. There were girls in Santa Claus attire. That was my first impression of the building where the whole building was shaking and that was going on downstairs. My wife was with me too. That was a good experience.

Aaron, it’s serendipity because we’re focusing on investment, but a lot of the interviews have gravitated toward legacy, meaning and purpose. In the end, a lot of people are in this rat race in a sense of what they’re doing financially and don’t necessarily know what the end result is. They think it’s retirement. Other than that, most people don’t dig deep. You were going to be in town because the main company that you do business with is located in Salt Lake. It worked out that you’re going to be here. You’re going to be able to meet the entire team, come to the office, but also do this interview.

You’ve been writing a mini-book that is very inspiring. It revolves around legacy, purpose and meaning. I’m excited to interview you because all these events had to happen in order for you to be here. There’s definitely a design behind it. You’ve supported our business as an advocate working with Gary Pinkerton and I’ve learned a lot about you. You’ve spoken on the Cashflow Wealth Summit a couple of times. You’re a stand-up guy. You’re a man of principle and purpose. It’s awesome to know you.

Thank you. I appreciate that. The reasons that I can do those things is because of the stand-up people here at Paradigm, the stand-up person that Gary and you are, the principles and purpose that you operate your business with and your lives. I can walk beside those kinds of people. It’s difficult to live a life and you’re seeking purpose and significance, but the people around you are not or what they’re seeking is the wrong things. You can’t couple those things together. You can’t walk together. The reason it’s easy to be able to do what I do as far as supporting this organization and be able to point people to the knowledge that you guys exist is because of who you are.

Let’s dive into something I’ve done with all of the guests, which is be able to gain quickly their perspective of life, business and investment. It’s with a couple of rapid-fire questions. Pre-work, who was a role model to you, someone that you looked up to or inspired you?

It might sound cliche but it’s my parents. I always sought their acceptance of what it is that I did. They were very hardworking people. They would be all night long going. I say this about my mom, if she sleeps, she’s hanging upside down. That woman goes and goes. Even now at 72 years old, she’s still going. I grew up watching them work their guts out. We did some time in my high school years on the cattle ranch. We had a partnership with a cattle ranch. My dad and I were out there together a lot. We worked together in the mines in New Mexico before I came into this. One of the big things for me when I was working with them in the mines was to be able to experience that, and then for him to call me his partner underground to the general manager. I knew I’d made it to the goal where I wanted to be. Through my childhood, when he was mining and not when we were cattle ranching, because we were mining a lot of other times, we were referred to as a partner. That was a big deal to me who that person was. For me to be claimed that was a big thing for me. Working with my mother, she was in real estate, I was doing regular type of lending for home buyers. We worked together a lot. Having her willing to continue to offer my name to her clients because she won’t do that if you suck. If you don’t do your job, she has zero patience for you.

TWS 10 | Training The Next Generation

Training The Next Generation: A legacy is educating people enough to know where their end is and what tools they can use to achieve that end.


The nepotism idea is even more so.

It’s a reverse nepotism. She works her guts out. I didn’t. I had to continue to earn that position. That would be the people that I needed to work to continue to get that type of acknowledgment.

Second question, what superhero or icon in history did you most resonate with?

I’ve got to say the Hulk in a way because you could be a very calculated and thoughtful individual. He was a scientist and very brilliant mind in there, but then life happens. My business has been in one of the situations where no matter how hard I try and how much I did to go about a calculator process, there’s always somebody there to block you. There’s always something to hit you. There’s always something to try and knock you down. I found that I had this power internal part go back at it like a silver back on Coke and go after what I wanted because I knew it was right. I knew it was necessary to overcome those obstacles and be able to see what was on the other side.

It wasn’t where I went out in a crazy way like you have no control, but I can see how you finally have that internal fire that comes out. You are able to push through that obstacle. They’re not even obstacles anymore. What used to be like a huge difficulty I overcome because we have such momentum with me and my team that I don’t even feel those things. It feels like a little bump. It’s like a train of full board. When you need to go out there, it’s readily available to me. When you look at an actual historical icon, we’re sitting in Utah and you’ve got Porter Rockwell.

I remember reading books about him. He’s an individual who was a kind man. When the time came and when he needed to, there was no line even for a personal cross. He took care of business in a big way and I identified with the way he went about life. He did the right things. When things are off a little bit, he went at his way. That might even be a reason why I look the way that I do. I’m going about things my way. Even though I’m amongst groups, either it be religious or business, this is the individual you’re dealing with. I don’t give a crap what room I’m walking.

Carl Jung, the difference he’s made in psychology is identifying those four dominant archetypes: the warrior, the magician, the lover and the sovereign or the king/queen. From what I’ve studied, the ability to associate those archetypes of your personality at the right time equals an incredibly meaningful life because you’re not showing up as one all the time. You identify who those archetypes inside of your personality so that when you do show up, you make the biggest difference. Imagine showing up to a hard situation that requires a warrior, but you’re the lover. It doesn’t work so well. You may dent a few legs but you’re not going to get anywhere. What charitable causes do you support?

You mentioned the book and I have released four. We may even talk about those, but those four are out. We have yet to get the marketing behind them. Every penny that comes in through those books is going to go towards charities here. I’m working on supporting veterans housing, The Land Foundation who handles cerebral palsy, trying to get research done for children. There’s Operation Underground Railroad and we know what they do and what is necessary. That whole subject to me is something that turns my gut, but inspires me to think on ways to try and help.

Every cent is going to go to help those causes. That’s why we even have some of the systems we have built in place to help those who can’t help themselves, but we’ve screwed it up. This is the one thing that I get to control. I’m going to control the sales of those four books to go to those causes. I’m telling anybody who’s reading, I spent in excess of $20,000 to get those out. I’m asking you to spend $30 to $35 to support those foundations. I’ll support them with $20,000 plus. Please support it with your $35 to $40 to pick those up and work with me to get some resources into the right hands.

Finally, legacy, if there was one attribute that you could impress upon your kids, grandkids, the world, this audience, what would it be?

It would be to be able to direct your mind. That’s the one thing that I want everybody to be able to gather control over. You’re probably like me, I’m a big fan of Napoleon Hill and his book that was released in 2011, Outwitting The Devil talks about a person’s ability to control their thoughts and focus them where you have the most success. 98% of the people drift. They focused on nothing and accomplished nothing. People ask me about my business and why I focus almost solely on real estate investors, doing financing for real estate investors, buying those single-family duplex, triplex, fourplex homes. Why do I not target realtors? Why don’t I go after first time home buyers? I found when you tried to be everything to everyone, you’re nothing to no one. I focused and went after one specific type of client. I went from doing 100 transactions a year to 723. I’ve been consistently 700 for three years. One thing I will preach to everyone, if you can control your mind, control where you’re focusing your energy and not yanked at 100 different directions, you will be able to find the success you’re looking for.

New technologies continually make it easier to educate the next generation. Click To Tweet

I’m curious about what’s driving you because you’re an incredibly driven individual. The first question I had is how do you characterize legacy? You give me a preview of what your next book is going to look like when it comes to the legacy you want to leave for the world, for your family specifically. How do you characterize what legacy is?

People being able to pick up the pieces that are left when you exit and be able to continue on the exact same path. Not necessarily does it have to be 100% of the end result that you planned for, but the result that they planned for. For me is to educate my children enough about what I have done, what I’m intending to do and to understand and figure out what their intentions are. When I do leave this sphere and they have to pick up the ball from there, from what I leave, they can use that to continue to grow towards their end goal. A legacy is in reality educating people enough to know where their end is and knowing the tools that they’re left and how to use them to get to that end.

You alluded to something in the beginning, which is what I’ve found with most of the guests were their biggest influence was their parents. A lot of that development happens within the first ten years of life. If you look past to their parents and their parents are going back to generations, it’s amazing to see how one little thing can make a difference for future generations. I look at something that I’ve questioned myself in and often thought about, which is what am I after? What am I trying to achieve? Ultimately, I believed that the meaning that we get comes from us being able to make a difference. It starts in those inner circles and then works its way out. The inner circles are your kids and your spouse, then you go to your extended family, then your community. When you grab hold of what creates meaning for you, life starts to take off. It sounds like that’s been the case for you.

It is in a big way. You talk about inner circles, your inner circle evolves to an outer circle, which becomes your inner circle again. You have your parents and your siblings. Eventually you’re looking to expand that inner circle to an outer circle, which is a spouse. When I met Rizzo, I brought her into an inner circle and then we have kids and that create inner circle. We then have friends and business associates. You and I may have lived and stayed away, but there’s an inner circle forming there. Part of it is I’m looking for the acceptance of my family and continued acceptance of my spouse and acceptance of my kids. I wanted to be able to lay my head on the pillow at night and know that those people that are in that circle that’s ever-expanding have the best thoughts possible with me because of what my intentions are. My intentions are not for me, but my intentions are for them. If we continue on that path, everything we’re talking about achieving on the legacy side is easily achieved.

Talk more about what drove you to write the book that you’re writing around legacy and a system for the family. Where did that idea spark? Maybe it had to germinate along the way, but where did that come from?

I remember back in 2012 when I started typing. I wanted to give something to my kids. I wanted to leave something. They were all very young. It’s amazing what has happened in this window of time. I started hammering away on a tablet I had and I had one of those Samsung Galaxy 10.1 whatever they were. I found myself there all the time starting from childhood. What it boiled down to is I was trying to understand my kids. I don’t remember the circumstances. Something was going on there. I couldn’t get what was going on with them. Why are they not getting it?

I had to take myself backwards to that age. I stopped myself back at those early ages to try and put myself in a position to understand what were they thinking, why were they thinking it, how can I identify with them, and how can I communicate in a way that they would understand? From that initial thought of putting myself in a dormant state to think through that, I started writing. I started creating my entire life story up until 2015. It’s amazing, I got to nearly 400 8.5×11 pages and 9 or 10 is what the size of the script was. It was amazing how much data was there.

I’m like, “I’ve written all this, I need to put them in book form.” Somebody introduced me to an editor who was working for Tony Robbins for a number of years as his personal assistant. I put this in her hands. She read it. She says, “This is all great, but nobody gives a crap. Give them something that they care about first and they’ll care about this.” I’m like, “What do we do?” I paid to have this ghostwriter package done. I flew out to her location in Olympia, Washington. We sat at the Lake House for two days. It started out for the first six hours and it wasn’t working.

The information wasn’t flying, nothing was flying. I was telling them there was something happening here. We had to get into a deep conversation and start uncovering some things, then it started to flow. We spent the rest of that day and into the next day recording conversation after conversation. After a few months, they gave me the finished product. I read it and I’m like, “I can’t publish that. That’s not me.” They’re like, “What do you mean it’s not you? This is all your words.” “That’s my words, but it’s all edited. You took the stories and some of the meanings even change the way that you typed it up. It’s not the same meaning.”

I went back and what they do is awesome. It got me started. I started all over again, but now I had processes that I’ve gone through. I started typing. It hit me one day. I was talking to my brother-in-law. I was in the Admiral’s Club in Dallas. That’s where I got off a plane. He’s calling me and we’re talking. He goes, “I was thinking. You hit on a lot of topics. I hear you talking to different people and doing these podcasts. You need to start touching on specific topics and write on that.” I’m like, “You can’t do that. How am I going to do that? I can’t do a full book on that.” He’s like, “You don’t have to do a full book.”

TWS 10 | Training The Next Generation

Training The Next Generation: Today, accountability is not always built into the ways people operate, and kids are influenced by this lax environment.


It started occurring to me. I take all the content of a full book and break it into releasing it chapter by chapter as a small book like the dime novels of the 1800s. I started off with a book called Point Your Head and Heart…Your Ass Will Follow. It’s all about if you think it and you believe it and you write it down, you will show up there and it’s happened repetitively in my life. The second is a book called Gratitude: A Practical Application. It illustrates two separate contrasting events that created my understanding of gratitude as actual economy. This is not some agreement between me and God.

There’s no mystical piñata floating around that’s going to drop gratitude blessings on you because you walk around with gratitude. It is an economy between me and you. It’s very well illustrated between two different people I met in the same week. The second one is called Quit Jerkin Off. You can take that phrase however you want to and figure out your topic, but what it boils down to is habit that people are losing so much productivity to have and it gets back down to controlling your thoughts.

The final of those four is called Stihl Runnin. That’s about one of the icons of my life, my dad. Watching him with that Stihl chainsaw he had. It’s an O41 made in early 1960s in West Germany and how everybody else on the mountain would have problems with their chainsaw, but that kept running and it still does. It’s in my personal collection. It explains where I wear the hat. It’s a lot about controlling your mind. Back to that mental focus situation. We’re then going to go into book five, which is what we’re talking about now. I’m titling that book five, The Business of Family.

What it boils down to is I have been able to create a system within my family, having my kids being held accountable to what they’re putting aside for their future even at a very young age. Nobody ever held me accountable. They said save. That’s all they did. Nobody showed you how. Nobody taught you how. They told you, go and invest into a mutual fund or something. My children and I now on a fairly regular basis, we sit down. We go over the investments we’re going to do. We go over the family holdings. We also go over a log that they are putting aside 10% of their income for their future. They’re getting their own life insurance policy and we’re training them how to use it.

We’ve created an engine to be able to use our income with our life insurance policy to buy real estate investments and rotate it back through this engine of growth. I can illustrate to people how to do that within the book and also with other materials. It’s a matter of seeing the change that happened in my kid’s life. I’ve got to think like there are a lot of people frustrated with the next generation and this generation, but they’re not doing anything about it. I can’t things bitch about what’s going on with the generation and the following if I’m not doing any of these. I need to participate in doing it. The easiest way would be to start is with my own kids. Get them on a track and then after that everybody else. I can’t walk into people’s houses to get your kids over here or I can create some documents that they can use as a framework. I can partner with somebody like Paradigm Life to get that framework out. We can work together on technologies to continue to make it easier and easier to educate the next generation.

If you go to our generation, the generation before us and all the way back, the necessities and the physiological needs of life continue to get easier and cheaper and almost built-in. If you go to a lot of the generations in the past, the accountability of life was built in. If they didn’t prepare or organize, they died. Now, you don’t have to hunt. You don’t have to store food for the winter and ration during the winter. There are many conveniences now that the environment of accountability continues to decline. I look at my kids and even though their life seems easier from that physiological standpoint, it’s much harder because the previous generations had it easy. We had accountability built in. Now accountability is not built in. If you look at where kids are influenced, they’re influenced by their environment. It’s a very laxed environment. They think things happen in certain ways because they haven’t been taught and the older generation assume that they know and they don’t know.

I never even thought about. That is a very good point. If you did not do certain things, the outcome was swift and it was certain. It was right there in front of your face. Now everything has softened. It’s interesting to think that our children can survive easily. One of the things I’ve noticed and people are interesting creatures. They don’t realize that being able to survive is a skill that can easily translate to thrive. You see a guy who’s trying to dodge the tow truck that’s coming to get their car because they aren’t making the payments. It’s amazing how quickly they can come up with money to make those payments when they’re losing their transportation. If they have that type of energy and put that fuel into it to get to that point to pay all that stuff, why do they take the foot off the gas? You know the momentum it took to get there, can stay right there behind. They can take their foot off the gas, but if they keep the foot on to throttle a little bit, you can stay at a cruising altitude.

They wanted to take their foot off the gas and say, “I’ve got three more months before that guy shows up again.” It happens all the time. Many people in my immediate sphere, I’ve seen that happen too over and over again. Why don’t you keep going? What is the allure of your couch or your video games or whatever that is that stops you from having a much more comfortable existence? Nobody says you have to become a millionaire or billionaire or whatever. How about paying your bills?

That’s where I look at the habits that guy had were built in a long time ago. The influence that he had when it came to money, whether it was his parents or his environment, his social circle, his work circle, who knows. Right now, everybody has those habitual behaviors that they operate by. Very seldom it’s consciously controlled. It’s all unconsciously happening. You look at where the most influence happens, especially with kids, is in those early years is the first 10 to 15 years of life where they are impressed based on their environment.

Their environment is controlled usually by the parents. That’s where I look at the influence that I’ve had from my parents and my grandparents to my parents and my great grandparents to my grandparents. All of that has influenced how I show up for my kids. If I want things to change, I wasn’t necessarily happy with certain elements of how I grew up. I believe my parents did an amazing job. If I wanted things different, if I had one of the things even better, that was on me to create the environment in which that was going to happen.

Everyone has habitual behaviors they operate by that are seldom consciously controllable. Click To Tweet

The environment is interesting. If it’s not done dynamically, it could have unintended consequences. My wife grew up in the slums of Mexico in a cinderblock home, concrete floors, very humble circumstances. Her dream was to give her kids what she never had. I understand that motivation. At the same time, there are huge unintended consequences from that. It provides this environment where kids aren’t necessarily accountable or learn the principle of self-reliance. If we recognize the elements of what influences people then we can customize it to what values we want to layer on to them so that they have those unconscious behaviors going forward, not the ones where they’re fending for their life when the tow truck comes to take their car.

The tough part is giving all that information, boxing it all up for him, you’re teaching the best you can, but then you have to walk away and let them do it. I’ve also noticed in many families, you could have 4 or 5, 6 kids in the family and 1 or 2 of them do some amazing things. The other ones are completely different and they all grew up in the exact same environment because they accepted things differently. It’s so easy to see the negative, “Mom and dad did this stuff to us, but what about this over here? I never saw that.” “How is it that I saw it?” We were in the same room together. We were there the whole time together. We weren’t even separable, but yet somehow you saw only the negative.” That’s a difficult thing for us to wrap our head around our parents, also educators, business mentors and business people whatsoever and we’re leading our clients to do an end goal, to give them all the data they need and then do nothing with it and be able to accept that and not get frustrated. That’s tough.

Information and resources are more abundant than in any point in time in history. At the same time, the use of that information, the understanding of how to be resourceful and use that for a certain achievable end. That’s definitely lacking.

It made great data cheap as it is. I can get amazing stuff. It doesn’t become valuable until you use it. The second I put it to use, the second I put Napoleon Hill’s works to use, that can be extremely valuable. I heard about his stuff. I had a seventh grade English teacher write his quote, “What the mind of man conceived and believed, he can achieve.” In my yearbook in seventh grade, that still stands out. Your book is long gone but Mrs. Shumway writing that stood out. I’d never ever seen that phrase again until I read Napoleon Hill’s works in 2016. That’s when I first picked up his books in 2016 and I started reading that. It was 2015 or 2016 when I started picking up the book. The change that had happened to me from 2015 until now had more impact in that little time of getting that education and put it to work far greater than that time before as far as my business impact. You look at my last few years, I’m ranking the top twenty people in United States in my business.

There are 300,000 people in my industry. I’m in the top twenty for transactions closed. It all started in 2015. It all starts from educating yourself with the data that’s out there. My job is now to take the data I already know and refine it down into a way that people will hopefully listen. I’m trying to dumb it down a ton. There’s some high-level stuff out. There’s nothing new. I’m giving it from my perspective. I practiced it and used it. I saw the success of it in a very short window. Now I’m handing it off in little bite-sized chunks.

The information existed, you had all these different experiences of time as well as that quote in the yearbook. What brought it together? You read Think and Grow Rich, The Law of Success, and Outwitting the Devil. What was the connection? You were reading it. What did you become aware of that you weren’t aware of previously?

I started a partnership in 2015. You’d call him my competitor. He and I run an event. He started pushing me to come and merge our businesses. We did in 2015. In a need to contribute to the growth, we were on a trajectory. We’re going to accomplish some major things. When I made that happen, I was like, “There’s some huge potential here.” It wasn’t just me. This was somebody over here who I’ve had held in pretty high regard. He was getting it done. He saw enough in me to bring a board with his team. I have to step my game up. I was having some chicken wings with a buddy of mine at one of those little Irish pubs.

He had told me about the book, The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt. I took that book and I started figuring between that and the system that I was already creating in my head. I called my Chipotle System, which is how we get loans done. It’s like going to Chipotle to get a burrito built. I started taking from The Goal things to be able to implement those manufacturing systems to finance, to building an intricate financial instrument for real estate investment. That’s where it started. It’s trying to contribute more to the whole. That partnership severed. He had decided that he didn’t want to continue and he walked and left me. In November 1st, 2015, I start over with nothing. Starting over with nothing, I had greater knowledge. The knowledge of, “This is possible. We could do this because we were doing it.” I saw that it was working for some reason, he didn’t. What he wasn’t seeing, I can’t speak to, but what I saw was a huge growth in a short window of time.

TWS 10 | Training The Next Generation

Training The Next Generation: If we recognize the elements that influence people, we can customize what values we want to layer on to them so that they have those unconscious behaviors going forward.


I implemented those things. I got to thinking at that point, I was like, “If I got all that at one book and all these people kept talking about this Napoleon Hill guy, maybe I should listen.” I cracked open one of his books and it started. I cracked Think and Grow Rich because that’s where you start. A buddy of mine told me about Joe Dispenza’s book, which is Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. I cracked it open. I tell everybody about Joe Dispenza’s Tacoma TEDx. You’ve got to watch that Tacoma TEDx Talk about how that mind works and connects neurons. I saw those things.

Let me get into the next thing. I got into Outwitting The Devil. Somebody told me about that. I was telling about some of the books I was reading. I share with them Dispenza’s book. They go, “You should check out this book.” They shared with me Outwitting The Devil. I’ve never heard of that. I read that and that was eye-opening. I read it once and listened to it three times on Audible. The Audible version with the contracting voices is amazing. I went from there to The Wisdom of Success. It continued to domino. I start to discover the most influential book on me. It’s Charles Haanel’s book, The Master Key System.

In fact, I shared that you’re going to do this thing. That helped me train my mind properly. I get into scripture. Every morning I started getting up at 4:30. I’m still deep into the Old Testament. I’m reading it along with Skousen’s The Third Thousand Years. I started off with The First 2000 Years and I’m about twenty pages left of The Third Thousand Years and go into the next one. I’m now through the Exodus and all that, which is amazingly deep stuff. When you couple that with Skousen’s work, you can see how to handle people.

There’s a lot in there. Not to take this down a religious path, but when you start looking at the works that we’ve all talked about and you look at the work of the Bible, the book of Mormon and other scripture and all these things together, you start finding that there is no religion. This is the history of us. This is like my dad telling me what I need to do to be successful. This is the Creator of all things saying this is the stuff you’ve got to do to be successful and follow it. When you get it from people’s perspective like Hill, Spencer and Haanel, then you couple that with works that have been in existence forever, it’s all been there. Every single thing has been there.

The values associated with a meaningful life have been there for a long time. The principles that govern behavior have also been there for a long time.

You have stories on how to practically apply it. That’s the difference. We didn’t have practical application.

That’s where as we were talking about kids, practical application for you required signing a partnership. It put you in this position where, “I have to do this.” It’s no longer a choice. It’s, “I must do this.” When your partner left, it created an even more refined environment where it’s like, “I have to do this.” That environment can be controlled and designed intentionally. However, for most people that you have these epiphanies of life, it’s been done because of a car accident or a loved one passing away or having a near death experience, something like that.

I’ve had all those but for some reason, this was the most poignant.

It’s different for everybody where they come to this realization of, “If I don’t do this, the consequences are severe. The consequences are way more painful than the actual pain of changing.” That environment, going back to legacy, I’ve shifted how I influenced my kids. I’m intentional about the environment and intentional about what my motivations are, what my values are and the reason behind, sometimes things being difficult because in that difficulty is where your mind engages all the different resources of your life that you’ve learned, that you’ve read about. It gives you guidance on what action to take, which then refines your habits. That’s what it’s about.

Og Mandino wrote The Greatest Salesman In The World. He puts humans as creatures of habit. We all need to understand it. You’re going to be guided by some form of habit. Form good habits and become their slave. Tactics and strategies will continue to evolve with your environment. It’s the principles that remained the same. If you form the habits around principle and you have the right principles, everything starts to work for itself. People ask me, “How do you have the energies to have all these things done?” It’s because it all goes back to my basic principles. If it fits within that, I move forward. If it does not, I ignore it and move on what does.

What does this have to do with investment? That’s our theme for this. It has a lot to do with it. Most people may think, “You’re talking all this stuff, but what does that have to do with investing?”

The bottom line is the person has to decide that they want to invest. They’ll start building the principles around the investment vehicles that they’re choosing to do. They have to get the principles around what is the bottom line that I’m going to invest into. Too often people are like, “I’m going to run the numbers.” What result do you want on the numbers? Run them all you want, but you can get different results depending on what numbers. There are a lot of people out there that loved to throw out the pro forma. People are like, “Pro forma has to come up with this.” When you look at all the numbers most of us made up anyway.

Professor John Abernathy at the Kennesaw State University tells his students that pro forma is made up. None of it is real. It’s hopeful. Let’s look at real numbers. I take these investors back to the principles of the real end result you’re trying to get and I can show them how the real estate gets there. It’s not all about the loan. The loan in my opinion, that’s a 30-year fixed mortgage that we can get is the greatest asset associated with the transaction. It’s not debt. This is a great asset.

When I back them into how to find that as the asset, because the inflationary environment we live in, the tax environment we live in, the appreciation environment. The appreciation is easing on the radar, the amortization of the loan by your tenant and that cashflow, even if the cashflow is $150 to $200, if you’re buying in a place that will stay reasonably rented, it has the ability to raise rents because of inflation. I can show you how it’s 100% return, not some 9%, 10% or 12% cash on cash return model. If people are preaching that and that’s all they preach, they’re saying, “Look at this spreadsheet and if it does this at the bottom, you should buy it.” You need to walk away from those freaking people because they don’t know what they’re talking about.

They’re trying to sell you something. That’s it. You need to look at the entire thing as a whole. My goal is to take everybody I work with and convert their mindset to the proper mindset like we’ve talked about, become the CEO of their real estate investment business. Run it like a business. Get the right people on board to know the right things. There have been successful CEOs that say the reason they’re successful is because they find themselves and embrace the fact that they are the dumbest in the boardroom.

If you know more than everybody about their job, then you hired the wrong people. I tell my clients, “Welcome to being the dumbest person in the boardroom. I’m applying for a seat at your board table. If I have better information to offer than somebody else, I hope they have a shot at being at that table. If I do and when you come to me with the questions you have to consider and the decisions you have to make, I can help you make those in a way with practical information that somebody else chose to do. I can show you where they failed and where they have succeeded because I do 700 transactions a year for investors. Hopefully, you’ll make the decision and I’ll make you successful.” I even asked the question, and you probably know it, “Who made the most revenue during the gold rush?”

You have to be intentional about what values and motivations you leave behind. Click To Tweet

The people who owns the mine.

It’s the guys who sold the picks and shovels. It’s the outfitters. I explained to everybody, that’s me. That’s Paradigm. We’re outfitters. We’re selling picks and shovels. That’s how we’re going to better our table. The difference is we know where the gold are. It’s the real estate investment gold, the long-term legacy gold within these life insurance policies and being able to couple them with real estate. That’s how you extract the gold. That’s where you find it. If you’re successful in extracting it, what are you going to need? You’re going to need trucks. You’re going to need mining equipment. You’re going to need a smelter. You’re going to need a mill. You’re going to need a train to haul that.

If I’ve done my job, who are you going to come to get it? It’s us. Your success breeds my success. If you fail, I fail. I don’t want to sell one pick, one shovel. I want to make you so wealthy. You’ve got to come back to me for all the other things. Our success breeds further success for other people. It’s basically a big wheel. The client is the hub. We’re all the spokes. If one of us breaks another spoke in the process, the whole wheel is at risk. We can’t have it. How does this couple into investing gets back to mindset. Getting the mindset right of the individual trying to start. The desire to start is where it all starts from. You’ve got to take that first step. Darren Hardy says the first twenty seconds of a decision is where all the outcome comes from. You can decide to move forward or decide to be too afraid to step forward and you step back. That twenty seconds will create your outcome so step forward. We’ll help you, walk with you to get you where you need to go. You need to get the right people on your train.

I’ve been talking about a docuseries on Bill Gates. Have you seen Inside Bill’s Brain on Netflix?

I’ve heard about it. I started watching a couple of them. I haven’t seen all of them.

As you’ve been talking, I’ve been reflecting on the brain that he has and how he understands a lot of different things with what he’s trying to achieve, which is a lot of humanitarian good as well as solving significant problems. He operates the same way that you described. He knows what the end result is. He knows what his motivation is. He understands the basic question and principle around it. He has an entire network of those axes, picks and equipment, the people that are able to go, implement and execute. It was profound to watch that docuseries with that perspective.

He wasn’t doing any of the work. He was basically the first domino to say, “Here’s the problem. Here’s why we must solve it.” He enrolled other people that had expertise in different levels. He knew how to put teams together and how to inspire people. He’d sponsored some prizes. He did micro-funding of different businesses in order to achieve his end. He didn’t do any of the backend work. He came up with the idea, establish the results. He had this motivation. He knew how to put people in place in order to accomplish his end.

He stacked the dominos in design and knocked them off.

It’s similar principles. That’s what’s amazing is at that scale, which is a massive scale, making a difference for tens of millions, maybe even hundreds of millions of people, but also at the individual level. You’re trying to make a difference right now for your family, for your well-being, for your future. There are obviously going to be things added to that after. It keeps expanding.

Humans are the apex predator. We don’t fall prey to other species. We fall prey to other humans. Unfortunately, because of the marketing engines that are out there and the capability, people are figuring out a way, how do they prey upon somebody else’s pocket? I’m making sure that the entire world knows that’s not my intention. One of the things that I hate about my industry is full predators. All those predators out there are the people that I get to say, “You determine who they are or just know who I am. If you know who I am and what my team is about and what we’re about and we’re about you. That helps build our business even greater. As long as we’re helping other people, they feel like they’re getting them somewhere and start taking from them. I win as a result. I don’t need to concern myself with me. I’m not concerned myself with me. I haven’t concerned myself with my income in so long, even now I’m surprised that it’s there. I don’t have to worry about it. It’s not a stress of mine. I’m more stressed about somebody else’s.

When it comes down to those that have made a big difference, it’s because of them putting others in front of them. In the end, it’s the best benefit for them. I listened to what you’re saying and I come to this conclusion that when you start to realize your position in life and go from it being about you to being about others, you have the most fulfillment and the most meaning that comes from that. That motivation can’t die. Evidence of that is everywhere. Jon Huntsman passed away a few years ago in Utah, but he was a multibillionaire. That was his first principle. I read a lot of stuff from Ray Dalio. That was one of his primary principles. He’s connecting who he was with making a difference in other people’s lives. Everything came to him as far as his personal fulfillment and success because of that drive.

As we talked before, you alluded to some of the religious aspects of things in the Christianity and the depth of the scripture and stuff. It’s all there. The person who is more concerned of other people, you get there as a result. It’s an amazing thing that we’ve been taught our lives to not be selfish and unfortunately people are afraid that, “Nobody’s going to help me if I don’t help myself.” You end up hurting yourself in the process.

That’s how strong that drive is.

If you could somehow break that drive being all about you, you become all about you without realizing it.

How can the audience follow you and learn more about you? What’s the best way to connect with you, Aaron?

TWS 10 | Training The Next Generation

Training The Next Generation: Humans are creatures of habit, which means that they will always be guided by some form of habit, whether good or bad.


Go straight to the website, AaronBChapman.com. If you’re expecting to see a banker’s website, you’ll be at the wrong spot. You see a redneck sitting on a porch, you’re at the right spot. That porch is my office in Missouri. That brick and mortar story is in the book one. That’s the best way to get me there. I’ve got the LinkedIn thing. I’ve got a lot of stuff posted up there. My wife and my sister are working on Facebook and Twitter. I don’t know what else, Instagram or something. They’re working on that. I’m not in there doing anything, but those are the places you can find me.

Aaron, it’s been a pleasure. It’s been an awesome blessing to have you here.

Thanks for taking your time.

We’ll definitely need to do a follow-up to this especially when the next book comes out.

I’m looking forward to it.

Everyone, thank you for reading. Reach out to Aaron and get connected with him, even if it’s to be inspired and motivated by him through his social media presence. We’ll talk to you next time.

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About Aaron Chapman

TWS 10 | Training The Next GenerationAaron Chapman is a veteran in the finance industry beginning 1997, exited Mining, Heavy Equipment Operation, Welding and long haul truck driving. Since entering the finance industry his clientele has ranged from those purchasing their first home, building their dream home or investing in multiple properties for long term cash flow. His expertise is in the complicated. Presently ranked #14 in an industry of over 300,000 licensed loan originators for transactions closed annually (723 closed units for real estate investors in 2019, 707 in 2018 and 676 in 2017); Aaron is that battle-worn partner every real estate entrepreneur needs to walk thru the tough parts of building a real estate business.
In addition to a career in real estate finance Aaron is a Published Author with 4 books released and dozens of magazine articles. Very happily married to his wife since 1996 with 4 children. Aaron and his wife both take great pride in watching their children mature and make calculated decisions about their lives with their parents coaching. The hindsight education is openly discussed and both parent and child benefit from such conversation which has led to the creation of a family business where each member (even the 12-year-old) has a say in the family investments and growth of the family assets.
Aaron and his wife recently retired from 9 years of service with the Pinal County Sheriff’s office volunteer Rescue Unit. Both retired as team leaders. Aaron’s specific role within the Unit with designations as EMT (his wife is a Paramedic) was to lead the Technical Rescue unit as well as the Off-road and as well as the Air Rescue Unit’s. During those years the team experienced in excess of 50 rescues each year. In many cases, the missions completed received international media attention with lives preserved in extreme circumstances.

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Successful Real Estate Investing With Matt Atkinson

TWS 9 | Successful Real Estate Investing


You can start investing even with zero money on hand if you have perseverance and the right attitude. For successful real estate investing tips, Patrick Donohoe talks to Matt Atkinson who started in real estate as a mortgage professional and has been investing for fourteen years. Today, Matt shares his valuable perspective, thanks to his expertise on his investment niche, and emphasizes how perspectives impact the way you achieve things. Describing his own investing experiences, he tackles what successful and unsuccessful investors do, what attributes to failure, and the things you need to have for all kinds of investment opportunities.

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Successful Real Estate Investing With Matt Atkinson

Thank you for tuning in. It’s been a fun season so far. We’ve talked about a lot of different investment strategies. We’ve talked about business in a sense. We’ve talked about the startup world. A lot of what I learned at the Tony Robbins Finance event, it’s been fun. I hope you have been learning a lot. Head over to TheWealthStandard.com. We’ve updated it. There is a sign up for our email list. We’re going to be a lot more active there as well as our social media. Make sure you sign up for the email list as well as follow us on social media. My Instagram is @PatrickDonohoeCEO. Also, we have The Wealth Standard page on Facebook and LinkedIn as well. Follow us there and you can get all the updates.

In this episode, I wanted to bring on a good friend of mine. His name is Matt Atkinson and he is someone I’ve known for a long time. We met after I moved to Salt Lake City and he was in the mortgage space. I had a couple of years in the mortgage space before I moved to what I’m doing. He is someone that I’ve crossed paths with and over and over. Our relationship has gone onto another level because he is also a member of this Tony Robbins Platinum Partnership that I’m a part of. We have been able to hang out, talk and discuss everything, all topics personal, professional, investing business, it’s been amazing and he’s a good guy. He has a good heart and what’s most amazing is he finds fun and a way to be humorous in every circumstance. He’s an awesome guy to hang around with.

He also has a level of expertise in the residential investment space that is important for you to understand. The residential is typically how a real estate investor will first get exposed to real estate. He has been through some ups and downs and you’ll hear about that with some of his stories. His expertise hopefully helps you guys to understand if you are getting started in real estate or maybe heavily in real estate and have not gone through a market correction. Some of the points in which he is going to make clear will benefit you. Pay close attention. Let me give you a brief background on Matt to do his bio.

He started his career in real estate as a mortgage professional and he has been investing for several years. He purchased his first investment property in 2004, which is a single-family home through a short sale and he still owns that rental unit. He credits the experience going through the ups and downs of 2008, 2009 with getting him addicted to local real estate investing and owns over $14 million of rental properties personally. He has accumulated north of 25,000 hours of experience in this space, which is a few years round the clock. He invested almost $2 million in rehabbing and also an additional $4.5 million on flipping properties since 2008.

His focus is still mortgage in investing, but he’s consulting and he’s teaching what he has become an expert in. He teaches in the range of rentals, landlording, hard money lending, fix and flipping, assignments and building wealth as an investor overall. He served as the President of the Utah Valley Real Estate Investors Association for seven years and is a board member of the Salt Lake Real Estate Investor Association for nine years. He’s a member of the National Association of Hispanic Real Estate Professionals for five years and is a member of the Utah Association of Mortgage Professionals. He’s been with them for several years. Matt is an awesome guy. You are going to get a kick out of him. He is a great guy to listen to, intelligent. I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.

I’m here with a good friend. We’ve been in contact for a long time. We’ve hung out quite a bit. It’s been awesome. It’s been a highlight of my 2020 so far. We have high hopes for this show. Matt, we’ve known each other for a long time in 2005 maybe or 2006. You’ve continued in the mortgage industry right through the financial crisis. We saw each other in 2012, 2013, I went to Jason Hartman’s events and that’s where we connected. I’ve followed you on Facebook as well. We reconnected at some of the Tony Robbins events and you joined the Platinum Partnership and it’s been cool hanging out with you and your wife in some of the events. I’m excited about this interview. After all, you have a perspective that is valuable for the audience because you’ve seen a different side of investment and you’ve chosen to specialize in a niche and have become an expert there. I’m excited to hear your perspective on where you’re at, what you’ve learned from some of the events we’ve gone to, some of the Tony Robbins events. What does your future hold? Let’s start some of these rapid-fire questions to get your perspective of life and where you come from, that’s important. The first one is the pre-work, who was a role model to you, someone that either inspired you or you looked up to?

It’s common a lot of times people say their dad. My dad was a good role model, but I would say in addition to my dad, I looked up to both my parents. A family friend passed away that was influential in me growing up as a child, 12 to 19 years old. He was nonjudgmental. Let me be myself. I was a hothead, mouthy, high school guy. I looked up to him a lot. As I started working, I did some different development. I looked up to Tom Hopkins. I love Tom Hopkins. I met him in 2006.

I met Tom a couple of times. He’s such a good guy, the real estate guys. He’s such an amazing speaker. The second one, superhero. What superhero or icon in history do you most resonate with?

It’s Han Solo. I’m not sure if he’s a superhero, but Han Solo, he’s rebellious. He likes to takes chances. He always gets the girl, but he’s a hot head and he gets killed by his son. That is awful.

Third, what charitable causes do you support? 

I like working being in mortgage lending. Since the end of 2001, we started focusing on veterans on a national basis. I’ve always wanted to help veterans especially once with different disabilities. I have a couple of friends that have come back from the service that has had some PTSD, emotional challenges. I have a Wounded Warrior thing. I also like to give back with people who’ve had the mental challenges because I’m fortunate I haven’t had those challenges. It’s hard for me to be empathetic because I don’t know what they’re going through, but I’ve seen people have that happen to them. I like to give back in that way.

Finally, legacy. If there was one attribute that you could impress upon your kids, grandkids, the world, or this audience, what would it be? 

Don’t take life too seriously and enjoy the journey. A lot of times we’re young, we’re barely 40 and there are a lot of things in life that what can you learn from those experiences? If you can learn from it to get better and then also not do that mistake again, we can appreciate life a lot more.

This day happens to be when they were doing Kobe Bryant’s funeral. Michael Jordan spoke, his wife spoke as well. They talked about a tenacious guy and at the same time he enjoyed the journey. He loved the pressure. He loved the competition. At the same time, there was a level of enjoyment that most people miss when it comes to working hard, driving towards some achievement. They miss the beauty of it, the experience of it along the way. 

Successful investors model other people who have already done it. Click To Tweet

That’s interesting you brought that up. I finished the book, Relentless. Have you read that?

I haven’t. What’s that about?

Relentless is written by Tim Grover and he was Kobe Bryant’s trainer. He’s Michael Jordan’s trainer, Dwayne Wade. You’d like it. It talks about a cleaner who’s Kobe, Dwayne Wade. Michael Jordan was considered a cleaner, a closer, which is a lot of other people, and then a cooler that’s everyone else. You would love it.

It’s the different archetypes of basketball or pro sports.

It’s in life and he gives a lot of examples. I learned about the book at a real estate investing class that I went to. The speaker talked about it and I was like, “I want to read it.” I barely finished. He gives a lot of examples of Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan.

It was touching. There were many people there, but it shows you how much of an impact one person can make. He was in a stage where he had the attention of a massive audience. At the same time, it was one individual touching many. Even Michael Jordan, you should go and check out that video. It was touching because Michael Jordan usually is an A-hole when he speaks, but there was another side of him. It was cool to hear those short stories to show you how that type of tenacity can inspire and touch people. 

Especially as Jazz fans, we respected Kobe Bryant but hated it when he beat us.

I wasn’t a Jazz fan then, I wasn’t around.

In 1997, right after I graduated from high school, a friend of mine got tickets to go to the Playoffs game, the Jazz versus the Lakers. I was at the Jazz, Lakers game when Kobe Bryant shot the airballs in the Playoffs and missed. They talk about it in the book Relentless. That was pivotal like, “You’re a rookie, you missed some three-pointers and then he gets good and wins.” I remember Kobe for a long time.

That’s the thing. Those are the moments where you could say it was a failure, but it was probably a huge catalyst for him to do however many free throw shots until he had it done to perfection. Few people seek out those opportunities to face humiliation or face failure at that level.

He was chucking three-pointers, going out of style. I also watched the last game when he played the Jazz in LA of that tsunami eating sushi with a friend and scored 60 points. That was an amazing experience.

I remember they showed some highlights too when he was playing that last game and he knew he was retiring after the season. He showed a lot of affection toward coaches, owners, a classic guy. He learned a lot from his rookie season up until his last season. Let’s get into investment. A lot of what we’ve been talking about as far as a legacy is a concern and purpose. We’ll probably come out based on some of the experiences you and I have had with the Platinum Partnership event we went to, but I want to get into your investing experience. That’s the topic of this season, the theme that we’ve been revolving around because it’s an interesting time financially with where our country’s at. If you don’t understand some of the fundamentals in economics and have the experience of when things shift, they can catch you off guard. Oftentimes without that perspective, we are always looking for things that you may not be aware of that could impact what you’re trying to achieve. Those things are what catch you off-guard and there are two ways to learn. You can either experience it yourself and learn or you can learn from the experience of others.

I’d way rather learn from others.

Sometimes you take other’s perspectives. It depends on what level they’re at. That’s why I wanted to talk about your experience briefly so that the audience can realize where your expertise is, what you’ve gone through since you’ve been investing in real estate? Can you describe in a nutshell your investing experience?

TWS 9 | Successful Real Estate Investing

Successful Real Estate Investing: It is better to make a bunch of improvements and sell it versus those lending the money.


A lot of times when you first start, you have no idea what you’re doing. I bought my first property in 2004. I bought a couple of properties in 2005 that were mortgaged clients that were able to refinance and notice a default filed they had a not a good situation. I ended up buying their houses and then in 2006 I bought thirteen homes. That’s when we met. We’re doing a lot of fulfillment for option ARMs with an amazing five-point agent loan. That helped me learn that a lot of people would be buying properties purely for the appreciation and they didn’t have the cashflow or make enough money to offset the mortgage payment or the less than interest-only mortgage payments that we were good at providing them.

There was a group that did real estate coaching or consulting here in Utah and they would pitch opportunities throughout the United States. We would do mortgages for them throughout the United States. I believe you did that also and I recognize that they’re normal people, postal carriers, a manager at Barnes & Noble. I did a mortgage once for a kitchen manager at McDonald’s and anything in between and they were not cashflowing. In 2006, other parts of the country hit their peak like Arizona, Nevada, California, Florida, wherein Utah, we were 18 to 24 months behind. The other investors nationally started buying in Utah because we are still going up and they would do a lot of new construction. They would flip the lots to other people.

It was 2006, 2007 that you could assign the new construction house to someone else and make $20,000, $30,000. It’s very common on condo developments. I started not buying as many properties because I didn’t have a lot of extra cashflows. I need to have some margin. In 2007 when the bank started going goodbye, I remember someone, you close on a purchase and you think you’re going to get your money and the bank’s out of business. During that time, it made me a lot more cautious about money. Always have six months of living expenses or savings, reserves are super important. During the downturn in 2008 to 2011 in Utah at least, it went down 10% to 15% values a year where other parts of the country were going down in value. I was not able to get any more regular mortgages with traditional financing. I started buying with seller financing and I would buy properties from good people who were behind on the payments that bring it and keep them as rentals.

When was all this going down where everyone was pessimistic about the real estate market, what gave you the confidence to continue doing it?

I was born that way of doing things that a lot of other people don’t do. It wasn’t a cool thing. None of my friends are like, “Let’s go buy this house in the Westside.” That’s not in the area that we’d want to live, but keep it as a rental or fix and flip that. I was not able to get any more loans, not because of my creditworthiness, but because frankly Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would not allow you to get more than four mortgages. I had ten already, I’m like, “I’m stuck.” I knew that not everyone should short-sell because there were people that were behind that as long as they were current, they would sell you their house. I learned that from a couple of other people that I didn’t understand. I’m like, “That’s weird. Why could I buy their house from them? Me buying the house from them and it being current and keeping it for 5 or 10 years is better than them short-selling it.” I fell into it. I was aggressive that anytime someone was delinquent and I had the money to bring it current and there was some equity or I could at least cashflow, I’d buy as many houses as I could that way.

What are you up to? 


Do you own them all? 

I own them all. I do some partnership with my dad and some with my wife.

You also do hard money lending. That’s also an interesting story because you were doing that pre-2008. I recall a lot of people got caught holding a bag that they couldn’t find permanent financing to replace what they had borrowed at high-interest rates.

A couple of friends and I would buy income properties from each other, even in 2006. If you have maybe $150,000 and you’re like, “We’ll loan each other money because you couldn’t lend yourself the money.” We would lend each other money, notes, deeds of trust at 12%. We’d always charge each other 2 points. Two and twelve no problem and watch each other out. What’s interesting is during the market correction, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac would still allow you to always refinance off the appraised value as long as you had a note in a deed of trust immediately, which was interesting. I was able to refinance other people still. The difference was in 2007 and 2008 when Lehman Brothers went out of business and a bunch of other lenders, you could get 100% financing on non-owner-occupied properties back then. That’s what the program will allow. As that program discontinued and then the values went down, that’s when a lot of investors did short-selling or sold their houses.

You kept going with hard money especially during the downturn. You can be maxed out with several loans you can have with 1 to 4-unit buildings and you continued to use hard money and lend hard money. 

We started fixing and flipping homes because we would get the deal flow but we couldn’t get the rentals. We didn’t think about partnering with a bunch of people. I’m glad I didn’t. I could have partnered with 40 different people and you’d have all these K-1s and everyone’s in a different and financial spot and people get divorced or sick or whatever. We started doing fix and flip. From 2008 to now, we’d normally have done about 8 to 10 fix and flips a year. A couple of years we haven’t done as many because we’ve been working on improving our portfolio and selling them. To be honest with you, I’d rather lend a bunch of money than own the property or rehab a bunch. We still are remodeling houses and keeping a pulse on what construction costs are and then you look at it differently when you buy an asset, you got to make a bunch of improvements, and sell it versus those lending the money.

During this time, you were plugged in from what I assume to the investment market in general and have probably seen a lot of success summary similar to your own but also a failure. What do you attribute to the successful investor and then equally to the unsuccessful investor?

I would say three things that successful investors do is, one, they’re modeling other people who’ve already done it. They’re not trying to reinvent the wheel. They will follow what other successful people have done and then we can modify it on our own. The second thing is a lot of people who are more successful than I have noticed have been good about self-development like how to get better with systems from assignments to fix and flips to rentals to hard money lending. I’m going to an apartment syndication class in Dallas because I want to learn from other people. The third thing is they’ll cut their losses quickly versus sitting on it and hoping it comes back. During the downturn from 2008 to 2011, the second year when I was doing fix and flips, I noticed I had to change my prices before the market forced me to, where most people are the opposite. They would keep slashing but they always are 2% to 3% behind the market. As I liquidated, I would say 9 out of 10 we win, or 1 out of 10 we learn. As long as we make those modifications on price adjustments quickly, we were able to make a decent profit on at least fix and flips.

It is ideal to focus on different insurance policies to complement what you already have. Click To Tweet

Do you have a rule of thumb as far as when you got out?

On fixing flips, our objective is to go in, remodel it in a timely fashion, but not the, “I’m doing the work myself or coordinating that.” Ideally, you’d buy a property, remodel it and have a sold within six months.

If you didn’t, what was the breaking point? Was it time? Was it the price?

It’s both. We would lower the price to take the loss. Accidental flips, I don’t want to keep as rentals because how you remodel them for a rental is not the same way as you do as a flip.

Talk about failure. What do you commonly see? There are probably a lot more attributes of failure.

The arrogance and I was arrogant too, depending on who you’re talking to. Newer investors think they are untouchable. Everyone has made money in investing because the market has gone up. You can be smart because you bought something but not smart because you bought something and you’re like, “I made money.” Number one is arrogance. Number two is they are not studying. They are not studying trends. They’re not keeping conscientious of national news. They’re doing it their way, where it’s easy if you mimic someone else who’s more successful and you run with that. The third thing is they’re unfocused. As real estate investors, I learned this from a guy named Pete Fortunato. He says, “The first ten years in real estate investing, you’re considered a starter.” You’re all over the place. Everything squirrely is what you want to do. Fix and flips, buying holds, assignments, apartment, land development, hard money lending, whatever. In years 11 through 30, as a real estate investor, you care about two ways of cashflow. Cashflow from notes, hard money lending, or cashflow from rentals, single-families, multifamily, commercial, storage.

Here’s where it’s amazing that correlates with Tony Robbins with what we learned. On your 31 through 40, if you think about it, if you’ve been investing in real estate for 30 years, you’ve gone through some cycles and you should be a lot smarter with what you’re doing. He says, “You have two concerns. Number one is you want to pay the least amount of tax as possible, tax-efficiency. The second thing is you don’t want to lose your principal.” That shifted me in 2016, my investing strategy, because I was like, “It’s not all about how many doors I have and other things like that. I want to be a lot more tax-efficient with controlling or owning real estate.”

At the beginning, that’s when you want the most bang for your buck. That’s when you want the most upside. It’s the whole rocket ship, tons of fuel expended on takeoff. Once you get into the atmosphere, then much less fuel that propels you forward because you already have that momentum, it’s similar. I would say maybe in a nutshell with other investments too that you can correlate this principle, is in the end when you’ve built up a mass, you’re looking more for principal preservation, for the highest amount of return for the least amount of risk. Let’s get into some of the Tony Robbins stuff. He’s used this term, “Winter is coming,” for several years. He talks about life being different seasons. You have spring when things are blooming, you have summer, but then you have fall, which is harvest and then after harvest comes winter. There are a lot of people reaping. A lot of people making a lot of money. There are capital flows that are still abundant. What does that statement mean to you? You’ve experienced multiple seasons. When he says that, what goes through your mind? 

The correction from 2008 to 2011 sounds crazy. I remember talking to someone that I ended up buying his house, which is ironic. One of his houses and I’m like, “I can’t afford steak.” He’s like, “We’re going out to eat. You’d gotten chicken.” I was like, “Okay.” It’s a mindset with it. Winter is coming, I would say in real estate investing and then I’ll pick the overall market. In Utah, we’ve had a run. We hit our bottom in 2011 so we’ve been going up for nine years straight. That’s crazy. On average, I’ve been about 10% appreciation a year, which is not sustainable. It’s not affordable for people. With that being said, there are three things Utah has that are different than everywhere else. Number one is the LDS religion. Regardless if you like it or not, it’s super family-oriented and people feel safe here. They’re a great place to live.

The number two is Utah’s pro-business and there are a lot of smart entrepreneurial people here. A lot of people are coming here. The third thing is tech. It’s Silicon Slopes. It’s interesting how many people are coming here and are going to tech. It is influencing our culture in a good way but it’s also making it a little less affordable for a lot of other people that are not choosing to develop those skills. With winter coming, there are a lot of newer real estate investors who’ve been investing only five years and they have no idea what it’s like to have to make hard money lending. Many people are lending, they’ve reduced their rates, their fees and they don’t require interest.

When you have $1 million out of a hard money loan on multiple loans, let’s say you have three loans and you have $1 million out, you’ve got to write a check for $10,000 a month, you’re going to get more motivated to make your payments. Were other parts of the country you’re making that check every single month. I’m excited for the market to soften when it does. I’m going to kill it and buy a bunch of properties. The last three falls to winter to spring, I thought we would hit our peak and I’ve been wrong. Here’s why I’m glad I’m wrong. As I’ve bought in the fall though, I’ve made more profit in the spring. I’m going to go into each season as we’re going to stabilize and then have a little shift down because it will always keep me honest versus always banking on the spring’s a good time. From 2008 to 2011, what you bought in the fall and what you listed in the spring was worth 5% to 10% less than what it was in the fall even though the time of the year.

I look at winter because he always says winter is where all of the opportunities are. Where everyone is the most pessimistic and usually the unsuccessful investor is the one who has his emotions governing decisions. Whereas a seasoned investor understands the role of emotion, but also the role of logic. They have preset assumptions as far as what they should do given the environment. I look at winter coming, it’s a matter of the season. The timing of it, you don’t know. There could be a downturn starting after the election. Who knows? At the same time, it doesn’t mean that you should sit on the sidelines. It means that you need to be cautious, understand numbers, understand what those benchmarks are because there are always going to be opportunities. At the same time, it’s knowing that winter is coming. It’s recognizing that having some liquidity, having some reserves is going to prepare you not to weather the storm, but thrive during that storm.

Having the reserves, tons of people are like, “How do we buy real estate with no money?” The question is, “What can you do to earn more money so then you can buy more real estate to leverage your money?” I used to teach classes how to buy real estate with no money, but I’ve got to be honest, it’s way more fun to buy it with money because you’re a spender, saver and investor. There’s a transition of the three and we learned this from mortgages and other people. There’s a mental and psychological transition. You can be a spender all day long then you get a chunk of money. If you don’t know how to save it, it’s going to go regardless of what your income brackets are. We’ve met different people like that throughout our lives. You can transition, but there’s a lifestyle change to go from a spender to a saver and it probably takes a couple of years and you need to have money sitting in your bank account. You have to be disciplined saying, “I have $5,000 or $50,000 or $500,000 that I cannot touch.” As you have that self-discipline, then you can invest.

That’s what we learned, which is something I’ve instituted and often do a little bit too much of because of the experience of 2008, 2009, which is what the proper reserves are? What amount of money is the right to having a security or certainty bucket? If you have all of your money there, there’s not going to be much interest or much gain. Most of the gain is going to come from your earnings, not from your investments. It’s where do you draw the line between enough and too many reserves? That’s all an individual conversation yet when you’re asking the question of, “I don’t have any money, how do I buy real estate with no money down?” That’s the wrong question.

TWS 9 | Successful Real Estate Investing

Successful Real Estate Investing: Successful people are good at self-development.


The question is, “What can I do to earn money so I have money that I can prepare to own real estate?”

It’s not hypocritical because when you started to run out of whether it’s mortgage available to you based on lending guidelines or even your cash, then it’s, “I’ve done that. I have my reserves. How can I leverage other people?” There are tiers as far as how you involve others in your investing.

Something I need to share is you reminded me of, if you have six months of living expenses always in checking or savings or whatever is a liquid account, you’re going to be in a good spot. If you take it a step further, if you’re self-employed and if you know your operating expenses as a business, if you think about it, if you have six months of living expenses in savings and six months operating expenses in your business account, you have tons of control because you know where your numbers are. After that, you invest as aggressively as you’d like to however you feel it is appropriate.

How often do you assess your scorecard? Where your cashflow is? Where are your finances? Is that something you do monthly?

My wife and I go over our spending plan every single month. We review it annually based on our previous years’ experiences, budgets on books for all business entities including flips, rentals, everything else. I review those quarterly and I’ll normally use a trailing six-month history. Three months is too short. Six months is good. You look at a year, but I met with a CFO of the mortgage company I work at to do forecasting, based on what we discussed and what we’ve done, we’re like, “We’re in a good spot that we can make modifications and change things.”

A few more questions, first off, let’s finish off the whole core four. One of the things that Tony teaches is when it comes to any type of investment opportunity, there is a minimum of four things to have. At least have an awareness of number, one, it’s making an investment where you’re not going to lose money. Having an asymmetric risk-reward, meaning you have little money in the deal, but massive upside. Tax efficiency being when the first two are in place, are you going to get tax at the highest rates or are you going to have some tax favorability to the investment? Also, diversification, which is if you specialize in some niche, there are all external factors whether it’s regulatory risk, economic risk, interest rate risk. There are things are outside of your control that is impossible to prepare for. Having diversification across asset classes will help as these economic winds take place, that one type of investment because it’s not correlated with another, balances out. Those are his four primary principles of investment. How do you interpret that? How have you used those principles, those ideas to manage your investment decisions?

No one likes losing money. With that being said, Keith Cunningham calls it a dumb tax. It’s like, “Don’t make that dumb tax again.” We’ll pick hard money during the free correction. There were a lot of real estate deals that were on new construction, land development. I’ve only shorted one mortgage at a 10% haircut since 2006. I’ve never had a foreclosure. That has a lot of confidence. Someone could say, “That doesn’t mean you’re risking enough.” That means I’m underwriting the person, the deal and making sure investors I work with are in a good spot. I also didn’t do any spec homes during the crash. Some of my friends made $100,000 chunks and I made my little $10,000, $15,000 chunks doing my little flips. I’m a single guy who may be a devil. Maybe you’re stretching out that devil every once in a while. Don’t lose money.

The asymmetrical risk versus return, that’s an interesting concept, which was new to me until I read MONEY Master the Game and then also Unshakeable, and went to Wealth Mastery and all those financial summits. Here’s how it works. You can buy real estate with less capital borrowing OPM, Other People’s Money. That’s me. That’s how I bought most of my properties. As I buy with seller financing and as I’ve thought about this, for $20,000 out of my pocket, I might be buying someone’s house for $200,000 which is only 10% down. That property is worth $350,000 and it’s paying down to $160,000 and that cash-on-cash return is good.

Understanding how to do that correctly, I know how to do that with real estate. I’m not familiar with how to do that in other businesses. Tax efficiency, I don’t love writing big checks to the IRS. I’m all about what can I do to reduce my tax liability and then also in the future? Using Roth IRAs, self-direct and 401(k)s are both in the market and then also in real estate investing. You’re super familiar with different insurance policies that help you with that type of coverage or also benefits. Tax efficiency, I’m more concerned about pivot and make little modifications as I grow my portfolio versus if I didn’t think about that, it’d keep rolling. I’d be like, “I have a good tax burden.” Diversifying, we learned something from Ray Dalio. We’re supposed to have fifteen uncorrelated investments that are a lot. I did exercise for my real estate consulting clients. It was challenging for me to write out fifteen, but I did it on the teaching and I was like, “It’s way easier for me to figure out fifteen ways to buy houses.” It helped me recalibrate. What I’m doing with that is reviewing more diversification in the stock market. I am going to buy some gold, even if it’s 1% of my portfolio or 0.5%. I’m also focusing on some different insurance policies to complement what I already have. It gives me some good recalibration with my long-term plans.

That’s where I look at diversification. You become an expert in this specific niche. I would say it’s hard once you’ve done much there and even have gone through tough times to diversify outside of it because there’s always that weight of opportunity costs. How do you characterize that dynamic?

One thing I’m doing is I decided because winter is coming to liquidate 10% of my portfolio. I’ll call my D-class properties, my 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, 1920s houses that are old but they are good what I bought. Everything that I own that’s 1950 or newer, it’s at least 3 bedrooms, 2 baths with a garage, I’m going to keep. If it’s an older than 1950, 3-bedroom, 1 bath, no covered parking, no garage, I’m liquidating because we’re at the peak of the market and it might go up into gear again and it might go up in another year. I might as well liquidate, take some money off the top of the table. We learned that a lot. Half of it I’m going to use my cash. I’ll lend hard money. I view hard money lending as having money in the bank. I can sell a note easily for face value within a week to a lot of different people. The other part of the money is I’ll do 1031 Exchanges and buy some expensive multi-units. If I take my gross revenue, let’s say I’m grossing $1,500 a month in rent and I can sell the property and take $150,000 and buy a $500,000 fourplex. My gross rent is $4,000. My cashflow is going to increase. That’s going to put me in a better financial position then I’ll let that $500,000 fourplex slowly appreciate it at 3% for 10 years. Let the principal pay down and then I’ll keep growing my portfolio.

You know how to underwrite, you know how to look for those opportunities and you have enough of a portfolio where you can find different opportunities in there to become more efficient with certain properties. I know you’re going to learn about multifamily too, which is I would say other opportunities because of the demographic shifts, especially here in Utah. The idea of taking something inefficient and making it more efficient. Let’s end with some of the stuff you’ve experienced over the last couple of years with the Tony Robbins’ organization around legacy. How has that impacted the perspective you have with your money, your investments and your business? Let’s start with what you’re excited about in life?

I went to eight events, which is a lot. I’ve seen you. We hung out every other weekend or every other month. I’ve seen you more than a lot of my good friends that live in Utah. I’m excited about being more self-aware of how much more we can do in life. Not just financially but mentally, socially, engagements with other people and being more impactful. Thanks for letting me participate in this show. I know that if I help one person, it’s worth it. What’s cool though is I can keep this and share this with my kids in the future. They’ll be like, “Dad was saying this when we were kids.” A lot of my friends are like, “You say the same thing over.” I’m like, “It means it works.” Tony Robbins has helped me think of being better-rounded or balance. Here’s an example of the wheel of life. Do you remember that exercise?

Most of the things, I’m 8 and 9 and 1 being I’m a 6 and here’s the cool thing, that gives me some metrics to measure up and improve. Number one is self-awareness. Number two is how much our psychology makes a difference in life. It’s huge. Influencing our significant other, our kids, our family, our amazing team that we work with, clients that we serve, the community, that’s been impactful of making your move, change your state, jump on a rebounder. It makes a difference in how we choose to do things.

There is a psychological transition between spender, saver, and investor. Click To Tweet

Have did you redefine your understanding of wealth or has it been redefined?

I would say I was more monetarily-motivated. I’m more lifestyle-motivated. Lifestyle not necessarily means, “I can’t get the steak, I’m getting the chicken.” During the market crash, it’s being able to choose. I was meeting with my controller and had a phone call about 2019’s finances and where everything’s at. As we’re looking at it like, “What do we need to decrease?” It’s always good to trim the fat and reevaluate. As we’re reviewing what to trim and then I was like, “Here’s the opposite. How much more do I need to earn to keep doing with what we’re doing?” They’re like, “That’s a good question. We should come up with a number to go towards because I know that I get more inspired by going towards that number. As we cut the fat from other things, then we can be in a good spot too with that.” Where before I would’ve liked, “Let’s cut.” It’s been more like, “What do we want?” Tony teaches RPM. What do you want? Why do you want it? The three action items, that’s been reinforced.

It’s simple. At the same time, most people completely miss identifying the results first. If it’s not done, then going to the solution, going to the how is risky. That’s where I look at one of the exercises he does when he has us all write down the number we think it takes to be financially free. Everybody massively overshoots what it is because of a failure to be crystal clear with the results that you’re after. Understanding not the results, but the purpose, the why of those results. A big thing for him is if you’ve identified this, he doesn’t use asymmetric risk-reward with money, but he does it with what he wants out of life. It’s, “Here’s the result I want. How can I get it for the least amount?” I love that because ultimately, in the end, we don’t want money. We want experiences. The lifestyle is, as you put it, they bring us the most satisfaction, joy and then ultimately benefiting the lives of others. It’s getting in that contribution mode. Money is essentially a vehicle to make that type of difference, both in yourself and both in others.

That is huge because if you don’t recognize that going into any type of investment strategy, your emotions are going to overrule sometimes unless you’re able to appreciate and be grateful for what exists. If things happen, that’s great. If they don’t, then you still have and retain that state. Usually, that’s what I would say brings what results we want closer to us. As opposed to sometimes when we’re not satisfied and grateful, it prevents those things from being in our life. Anything else you want to add as a final thought?

It’s interesting how we worked together and at the time we were 26-ish. This young up and coming, you were married. I got married in 2007. I remember going to the Five Point Agent class that Garrett White taught. The cool thing is he’s made a big impression on my life. I met him. He was my college roommate. It’s cool to see how different people show up in our lives at different times and then it can be years later, but he encouraged me to take a Wake Up Warrior class, which I loved to help spur my reading. Reading, loving what is then a bunch of other books. He introduced me to Strategic Coach. It’s platformed, stacked positively. As we had Peter Diamandis, he’s speaking at Tony’s event, but he’s also a strategic coach, student. He’s given tons of credit to Dan Sullivan. The cool thing is all of this is available to anyone who chooses to take the time to study. I would never think I was going to Tony Robbins event running around at the Sun Valley but when I woke up, saw the market, I’m like, “I knew or I was aware of what this could impact the economy.” I’m like, “That was worth the money.” I am not freaking out, I’m like, “I’ll explain it.”

Everyone that’s reading this, here’s my suggestion and Patrick knows this. I wear shirts. I have my swag on the back. If you take three things you learned from the show and as you implement those three things and give yourself a date. I’ve learned this from Garrett White, Dan Sullivan, Tony Robbins, probably my Priest Quorum Advisor when I was a kid, whoever. When you write out action items and have it outcome-driven, you can do much in your life. Those who take the time to read this, it’s cool to read but take the time and people say massive action. Do something. You’ll get farther along by doing something versus being entertained because we have amazing voices.

What would you say are the primary reasons that prevent people from taking action?

It’s a lack of confidence in themselves. I’ve been a confident person to do stuff. What I have gotten from Tony and even Tom Hopkins. In 2006, I never see failure as a seller but only as an opportunity to practice my technique to perfect my performance. He has these little incantations or sayings that are ingrained in me still. As we’re more confident in life and then we have at-bats, the more at-bats we have and build that confidence, then we can take on a lot more things.

I love how Tony puts it where we have a 10,000-year-old brain that is still trying to protect us from the saber-toothed tiger. That fear is there, but it’s an irrational fear. If you know that, and when that fear comes up because people associate putting down something on paper saying, “This is what I want. This is what I want to achieve,” and then not achieving it as a huge fear of failure and the belief that they’re not enough. That prevents them from taking any action or putting any result down on paper. If you look at those instincts that are inside of us that are trying to protect us, that’s that feeling. We don’t have to be protected like that anymore. When it comes down to any type of fear, we live in a privileged country, in a privileged time in history where fear should not be there yet. It’s always going to be there.

Knowing that upfront and recognizing that, “Here are the results I want. Here’s why I want it. Here’s the massive action that I’m going to take to get it.” Even if you don’t get it, the massive action teaches you and brings you closer to what it is you want for. If you understand that, it’s one of those things, it’s programmed in our DNA and it takes a lot of repetition. It takes trying and being tenacious and not stopping similar to Kobe as we started the conversation with that. He missed those free throws as a rookie. He didn’t quit. It made him work harder. That’s the principle of failure. The bigger you can fail, the more likely the bigger your success.

At the end of the day, it’s how we will be remembered.

We’re all compelled to make a difference in somebody else’s life. Once you cross that line, life takes on a new meaning. I believe that as you have kids, as you have relationships and you have those that you make an impact on, it provides you with a sense of satisfaction, the fulfillment that you want to continue doing it. It’s identifying it first, it’s most important. This has been a good conversation.

Thank you. I did even feel like it’s natural. We should be at the beach.

You referenced something about the stock market crash. The stock market’s down because of the Coronavirus. I would say one of the overriding themes of the Financial Summit in Sun Valley was the impact that’s going to have because of how significant a role China plays in the supply chain side of things and how a slight disruption is going to have a ripple effect. It goes into many different industries, countries and economies. It’s interesting to see how that all plays out. We get to watch it.

TWS 9 | Successful Real Estate Investing

Successful Real Estate Investing: When you write out action items and have it outcome-driven, you can do much in your life.


We get to play and participate with a little more confidence than other people.

Thank you for reading. This has been awesome. Matt and I have some awesome conversations at dinner and different meals that we have but I’m grateful for you. I’m grateful for you how you’ve stepped up and you post a lot of stuff online and are trying to inspire people to be better continually. Do you want to mention maybe a few ways in which the audience can follow you or learn more from you?

I’m a big Facebook guy, because I’m over 40, I’m not on Instagram as much as where there’s this demographic they’re like, “We’re here, you’re on Facebook and you’re younger, you’re on Instagram,” and then there’s other stuff. Matt Atkinson, my real estate consulting company is called MJA REAL Consulting. I love helping people with real estate investing. I’m the President of the Utah Valley Real Estate Investors Association. We have meetings every month for those that are in Utah. It’s worth going to in Utah County to go and learn. If you need residential financing in Utah, I work at Intercap Lending. My email us MAtkinson@IntercapLending.com. If you put in the subject line, “I read Patrick’s show and he’s good looking,” I’ll probably talk to you a little extra, but you’ve got to put in the subject line, “He’s good looking,” for you to get some extra time.

Thanks for reading. Matt, thank you for your time. I appreciate it. I’d love to have you on again. Take care.

Thanks. Bye.

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About Matt Atkinson

TWS 9 | Successful Real Estate InvestingMatt Atkinson started his career in real estate 18 years ago as a mortgage professional and has been investing for the last 15 years. He purchased his first investment property in 2004, a single-family home through a short sale, which is a rental unit he still owns today. However, he over-improved the property, spent too much money on the renovation, and mismanaged his tenants. Throughout this process he learned the struggle of having a full-time job and being a landlord, and how to effectively utilize other industry professionals to improve his investing.

Matt credits this experience with getting him addicted to local real estate investing and now owns over 16 million of rental properties personally and with partners. He has accumulated 25,500 hours experience – nearly 7 years round the clock – and has personally invested over $1.87 million dollars in rehabbing rental properties since 2004, and an additional $4.55 million on flip properties since 2008. After making only $500 on his first flip project, he reevaluated the strategies others were using and learned how to effectively buy the property, get the most bang for his buck during the remodel, and how to price the home for the quickest and most profitable return.

In 2012, Matt and his team added real estate consulting to their services. He has focused consulting on a local level with his expertise ranging from rentals, land lording, hard money lending, fix and flipping, assignments and building wealth as a investor. He currently serves on the board of UVREIA for the last 6 years, SLREIA since 2010, NAHREP for 1 year, and is member of UAMP.

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“The beauty of the soul shines out when a man bears with composure one heavy mischance after another, not because he does not feel them, but because he is a man of high and heroic temper.” Aristotle

What a week!

In this special episode, Patrick takes a moment to share his thoughts on the week and what he is doing. Then, he sits down with his good friend Jason Hartman to share their perspectives on COVID-19, the markets, the economy, and the massive opportunities available.

Listeners who have been learning over the last few seasons must see this as a perfect environment for you. Moments like these magnify the value of the right mindset, anticipation, and preparedness. Although there are temporary physical concerns which I encourage you to be vigilant of, I hope you are poised to take some action.

Stay safe, stay healthy, stay positive.


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About Jason Hartman

Jason Hartman is the Founder of the Platinum Properties Investor Network and host of the Creating Wealth podcast, which is heard in more than 180 countries. Jason is a genuine self-made multi-millionaire and serial entrepreneur who owns 21 businesses in investing, financing, real estate development, and SaaS software. He has owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in several thousand real estate transactions. He has visited 83 countries, enjoys adventure, fitness, and lifelong learning.
Jason Hartman is the host of 23 podcasts with listeners in 189 countries, over 15,000,000 downloads and over 5,000 episodes where he shares powerful strategies for business, investing and living the good life. Check out his podcasts and resources at www.JasonHartman.com or www.HartmanMedia.com  Available on iTunes and your favorite podcast platforms.


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Quantum Computing, Quantum Leap Technology, AI, And More From The Finance Summit, Part 2

TWS 8 | Tony Robbins Finance Summit


In this second installment, Patrick Donohoe wraps up Tony Robbins’ Finance Summit events and shares the learnings he unlocked from it. Discussing China’s indifference about the trade disruption, he also touches on quantum computing and how diversification across different non-related assets is essential. He also breaks down Tony’s six-step decision making process and Greg Wieler’s four forces that tells the future, and recaps on Eric Prince’s segment. Find out more about quantum leap technology, artificial intelligence, and more in this information-driven episode.

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Quantum Computing, Quantum Leap Technology, AI, And More From The Finance Summit, Part 2

Ray Dalio Talks About China

Thank you for reading this review of Day 3 of my experience at the Tony Robbins Platinum Partnership Finance event up here in Sun Valley, Idaho. This was by far the most packed with information. I’m going to try to keep it brief, but I learned quite a bit. There was some interesting insertion or inserting of information that I wasn’t expecting and I had heard it before, but it made an even bigger impact for me. I’m going to share that. There were some speakers who went back to back that had polar opposite views in a sense of where things were going. It was fascinating to see that dynamic and how much that not only inspired my new level of thinking, but the audience as well. Let’s get into it. The first speaker right out of the gate was Ray Dalio. He was about a good friend of Tony’s and has become successful. He wrote a book called Principles, which I’ve referenced often. There were some great nuggets in there in regards to investing business and life in general. Check that out. Ray’s message wasn’t necessarily something that was outside of the video I’ve already mentioned, which is how the economic machine works.

Here are a few things that I took away. First, he made essentially a statement around where we’re at in the debt cycle. That relates to his video that I’ve referenced a few times. He said that we’re late in the short-term debt cycle and even later in the long-term debt cycle, but not quite to the point where there are a correction and disruption. I would say it’s a QE4 in a sense, which is the Fed’s involvement in the repo market. This has to do with bank liquidity and banks have to keep a certain amount of reserves. If they don’t have those reserves, they usually will borrow it from other banks. Over the last few months or so, that liquidity has shrunk and so the Fed has gotten involved. The Fed is providing this stimulus. It’s lending against high-value assets of a bank and injecting even more liquidity into the market. It’s interesting how they’ve done that, but it isn’t necessarily manifesting in inflation and huge amounts of growth. That’s because the inflation is in the financial assets, not necessarily in goods and services. That was an interesting insight.

He made a point about China going to another topic. He said that China doesn’t care about the trade disruption that they’ve had with regards to the Trump administration. He said that’s not necessarily a big concern for them. Their biggest priority and biggest concern is technology. They believe that the leader in technology is the one that’s going to essentially control economies, the global economy. That’s where China has been focused. Also, the dilemma is that the US and China are intertwined in regards to its technology. As far as the demand, I would say there’s a huge demand for the different technologies that the US has that’s all manufactured in China, which is interesting. Also, he made mention of quantum computing. Quantum computing is one of those races that companies are similar to 5G.

Google has made some strides toward having economical quantum computing. China is ahead of the game, ahead of any company in the United States, which I thought was interesting. It’s going to come down to the power needed to have these quantum computers run, which is an exorbitant amount of power. I would say part of the race is figuring out how to make that economical. The last thing I’ll mention is the idea that China is trying to disrupt the global economy and take over leadership and that’s going to be based on its control over technology. That’s one of the things that Ray had mentioned.

The next thing was the idea of tactical investment. He said that tactical investment, technical investment trading, ride short positions and ride long positions. It’s one of the most difficult games that’s out there. He said that the average investor has way more to gain by diversification. In Tony’s book, MONEY Master the Game. One of the takeaways from his interview with Ray and what Tony had Ray help him with is the creation of a portfolio that’s called The All Weather Portfolio, which is a combination of different assets. There are bonds, gold and commodities in there. What those assets are is when one goes up, the other goes down and there are about 5 or 6 types of asset classes in that portfolio, whereas things fluctuate in the global economy, then it’s able to counterbalance in a sense. I’ve backtested that. I’ve created a whole spreadsheet with a guy on my team. We backtested for 50 years and it does work. The gross yield was around 8% and you have to net out fees. That’s an internal return, which is interesting. He not only mentioned that but also to diversify into other asset classes. He said that the ideal diversification is across at least fifteen different non-correlated assets.

The last thing he mentioned is that there’s going to continue to be more stimulus. We’re seeing in the repo markets at the same time there’s still a tiny bit of room, but he believes that there’s going to be continual printing, especially this year being an election year and then the wealth gap. He mentioned that this is one of the biggest concerns. It’s where he is putting a lot of his philanthropic focus is into this wealth gap. At this time, 40% of the United States can’t come up with $400, which is concerning. If you look at Andrew Yang pushing universal basic income and also Bernie Sanders and his message, which is anti-establishment, but socialistic is attracting the lower tail of our socio-economy. It’s concerning to him because that gap continues to broaden. It comes down to the financial asset inflation, where that is made individuals wealthy at the top, but it has not helped those that are at the bottom. Ray wrote an article on LinkedIn about universal basic income and his study.

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Tony’s 6-Step Decision Making Process

The next thing, not necessarily an intervention, but there was a woman who stood up and was talking about her investments, what she was taking away and what she was trying to determine as far as some of her next steps in business. Tony did something and I’ve heard this before, I’ve come across it, but he went into way more detail and something hit home to me. I’ve been talking this a lot over the last several podcasts, which is this idea of where your focus is when it comes to your future and the decisions that you make. He has a six-step decision-making process.

I looked online and there are several resources available. There’s a Fortune Magazine article that discusses it in detail. It’s the OOC/EMR. The OOC is step-by-step. The first three steps being, how to start to identify the basis of your decisions. These are all acronyms of course. It’s Outcome, Options and Consequences. The outcome is first, which is getting crystal clear of the outcome you want. What are the results that you’re after? Getting clarity, crystal clear of exactly what those outcomes, those results are. I’ll go through some of the notes that I took. What is the result you’re after? Why do you want to achieve it? Getting clear about outcomes and their order of importance, you start listing out and it’s a brain dump in a sense. That’s what he was having this woman do. Options, write down all of your options, whatever comes to mind. He says that one option is not a choice.

Two options are a dilemma and three options are where you do have a choice. It’s coming up with as many of those options as possible. He also said that it should include the maybe farfetched type of options. Options that you may think is crazy but listing all of them out and there’s a whole process to this once you’ve done it. Outcomes, all of your different options and the consequences are the next one. What are the upsides? Consequences are positive and negative consequences. What’re the upsides and what are the downsides of each option? What do you gain by each option and what would it cost you? It’s answering those questions as it relates to all of your options.

Finally, it’s evaluate. Now, you go back and you evaluate all the options and the consequences and if it does get you what you want as an outcome. Start to rank those in order of importance based on the upsides and downsides. The next one is the probability. What is the probability that it will happen, that this option will work? What that does is it gives you an idea of what is the specific direction as it relates to the decisions you’re going to make. Finally, it’s mitigate. As you review the downsides of all, you brainstorm alternative ways to eliminate or reduce the downsides, which is important because as you can review, if I have a downside, you list the downside, but, how can I get rid of the downside? How can I mitigate the risk of a downside?

Finally, it’s resolving. It’s going back through and selecting the best option based on ways in which you’ve been able to rank and categorize them. It was fascinating and this was probably, I would say at least an hour-long type of discussion with this woman in front of everybody. She had multiple breakthroughs being, she got to this point where it’s like, “I can do this.” You can see her as her mind starting to expand. It’s that whole quote of, “Mind that got you to where you are is not the mind that’s going to get you beyond.” It’s opening up that mind breaking through thresholds in being able to figure out, “What is a decision I can make that it will get me closer to the results that I’m after?” That was fascinating. I love that.

It was two speakers that were again the polar opposites. The polarity that existed between their perspectives of the world was fascinating, especially they were back-to-back. Tony did this by design. The first is Harry Dent. He has spoken at Tony’s conferences for a long time and he does it because Harry Dent has some track record issues. There are a lot of calls that he’s made in his books that has not come to fruition or were early or were late. It’s happened for several decades. Harry took a stand with Dent Research, which is a part of the Agora Network where he started writing newsletters. It wasn’t these books that he would come out with and then write about how the future looks like this.

TWS 8 | Tony Robbins Finance Summit

Tony Robbins Finance Summit: China is trying to disrupt the global economy and take over leadership which is based on its control over technology.


Where he’s writing through a newsletter, a publishing business would allow more accuracy. He’d be able to course-correct quicker, which is smart. Regardless, this is what Harry said regarding the future. He said, “There is going to be a downturn.” Harry has written often about demographics and the spending of demographics, their net worth and where their asset concentrations are. He said that we’re either at or beyond the peak of Baby Boomer spending. The Baby Boomers started in 1946 going to 1964. That’s the years in which the Baby Boomer demographic was born. We’re getting to that almost 60 years old where it’s the end to the Baby Boomers and their spending peak after they’re empty nesters. Their parents are finally free. That’s when they start to spend a lot of money. That’s what’s going on. That’s going to come to a close soon.

He said that plus the behavior of youth and I’ve talked about the greatest wealth transfer in history, which is a set to come in the next years amounting to tens of trillions of dollars. It’s going to be different buying behavior of this younger demographic, different assets that are also in a different financial situation, whether it’s the debt that they have or the professions that they have. It’ll be interesting to see where money flows once this wealth transfer starts to take place. He said that being in cash is a good thing. You’ll be able to take advantage of opportunities. He sees major disruption in 2022 and Dent Research has multiple newsletters. They have a free newsletter as well if you guys want to follow them.

Finally, he mentioned that a lot of the opportunity from an investment standpoint is in healthcare, specifically care to those that are aging, whether that’s nursing homes or assisted living. There are tons of private investments out there, but there’s a lot of public investment out there as well. Several ETFs or REITs, Real Estate Investment Trusts, that concentrate and focus on essentially different types of housing and real estate for an aging demographic. That was Harry. He is an entertaining speaker. He is somewhat crude in moments but at the same time, he was entertaining. One of my buddies, Matt Atkinson, I need to get Matt here one of these days. He has a distinct laugh. He was sitting probably toward the back from where I was sitting. You can hear his distinct laugh several times throughout Harry’s comments.

Let’s talk about Peter Diamandis. Here’s what’s cool. Peter essentially said at the end that all of his slides, which I already have can be made available to anybody. We can share those. I’m going to post a link for you to download those slides. Make sure you go to TheWealthStandard.com and there’ll be a link there to download. He is a thinker and I’m not going to spend a ton of time going into my notes there. I first read Peter’s book Abundance. He has Abundance and then Bold. He has a new book. It’s called The Future is Faster Than You Think.

I read Peter’s Abundance book it was about 2009, 2010 where it was a dark time for a lot of people, including myself. There were pessimistic views as far as what was happening within markets. Peter wrote a book about essentially how incredible the times were that things were much better in the past. There was much innovation going on. That the world was getting better and he had all proof of how it was getting better. I love that mindset because he knows what’s going on. He knows that there’s pessimism, but one of the quotes he used was that, “A negative mind will never give you a positive life,” which I love because it’s always been that way and always will be that way. There’s always going to be a half-empty glass.

Peter And His Ideas Of Growth

I know if the focus is there, that’s where your emotions and your feelings are going to focus and regardless of the circumstances. In 2010, those dark times was an amazing time if that’s the mindset that you had. There were tons of opportunities, whether it was real estate or other types of business investment. Since then, it’s been this huge boom. I love how Peter thinks, but the polarity between a pessimistic view of things and then an optimistic view of things was healthy. It helped broaden not just my perspective, but a lot of those that were in the room. A few of the things that Peter mentioned, you will be able to get into the slides and dig into some of the amazing innovation that’s going on.

Concentration, understanding the future, and energy information are going to create better lives for everybody. Click To Tweet

We are in this exponentially growing a society where it was Moore’s Law before. It’s the acceleration of acceleration. It’s this quantum type of leap toward the future. That’s what growth is like. Also, it provides a lot of opportunities because he cited some polls of the simple question, is the world getting better? Six percent of the US believes that it is and 94% don’t think that the world is getting better. He had all statistics on poverty being cut in half in the last decade. Child mortality and famine were going down. Half the world is using the internet. There are almost 800 million more people in the last decade that have electricity and renewable energy. There’s ten times more solar power than there was and then he gets into the future. The future of being driven by artificial intelligence and biotech.

He said that the concentration as far as understanding where the future is going is an energy information and material. The combination of which is going to create better lives for everybody, but also an extreme amount of wealth for those that know how to ride those waves. He mentioned personalized drugs. CRISPR, which I’ve known about for a long time, is a way in which a map is created for the human genome being able to have different ways in which you can edit and improve genetic disorders. It’s fascinating and some of this might be scary as well. I know most of something you were thinking that a lot of the crowd, that’s a way in which they responded.

Tony invested in a 3D printing home building company in Mexico. He has two printers but they’re able to build 2 or 3 homes a day and they’re $10,000 each. He’s talking about rockets and how SpaceX and other companies are being able to capitalize on either putting satellites in that provides a 5G type of internet globally. Digitizing of factories, which is going to bring costs down, but also it’s going to decrease dependence on foreign manufacturing. We’re seeing that with the coronavirus and how that’s disrupted the supply chain. I don’t think we are yet to see the impact of that. Some are saying that it could be an impact last longer than a year in disruption of the supply chain. 3D printing is going to essentially help us to create factories on site where you can 3D print parts as opposed to having to manufacture in shipping costs. The use of fuel and energy for that shipping and so forth. He talked about flying cars that there’ll be Uber Copter in Dallas. He also spoke about Kobe Bryant’s helicopter going down. The older style of helicopter makes that type of flying dangerous, but the more modern ways in which Bell and other companies are creating copters with multiple blades, multiple propellers, which highly mitigate the probability of crashing.

He said that by 2021, Elon Musk thinks that there’s going to be fully autonomous flying vehicles that can be commercialized. Boston Dynamics, he posts a video about this jumping robot that Boston Dynamics has created. It’s amazing what it’s able to do. It’s a matter of bringing down costs. Next is artificial intelligence. It is going to make decision making much more accurate and the reduction of error and the reduction of time and energy spent on making decisions. Information will be provided based on trends and patterns. There’s a guy that spoke about how he’s created an unlicensed 5G network where you could put up a tower anywhere if you own real estate. If you have a building, you put up a 5G tower and it can circumnavigate buildings and so forth and create a beam of the internet at 5G quality for $6,000. for each tower and it can give access to over 500 households. He says that if you network 30 towers, you can essentially provide 5G to an entire city. We don’t know what the impact is going to be of these different frequencies and how that’ll impact the body.

Based on this guy’s innovation, it’ll highly reduce the number of towers, even reduce the number of towers that exist to provide that type of internet at those speeds. OneWeb is that satellite company and I can’t remember the name of the 5G company. He talked about quantum computing as well. It’s human longevity and what we’re being able to do there. It’s fascinating. Peter has Abundance 360 with his conference. He also has what’s called the XPRIZE. It’s essentially putting a prize out there to whoever wants to tackle that. Whoever does get some of the prices are $10 million. He has a $100 million prize.

Event Wrap Up

I’m going to wrap up this amazing event. I’ve been on the road. I’m ready to go home, but it’s been life-changing. These are environments where your mind is almost forced to expand both with what you’re being taught by the speakers and guests, as well as all the conversation that takes place afterwards. There are a lot of high-level people here. It’s been amazing. I’m still processing everything. Day 4 was no exception. Every single day has been packed full of amazing content, amazing people and ideas. They make you think differently. Those are environments that serve everyone. I don’t believe growth takes place in passive environments, environments that you’re used to. Growth takes place in environments that challenge you not just physically, but mentally as well. I’m going to go through a few of the speakers and wrap this thing up. We started around noon every day because most people would ski and so forth in the morning.

TWS 8 | Tony Robbins Finance Summit

Tony Robbins Finance Summit: Artificial intelligence will make decision making so much more accurate with a huge reduction of error.


We opened Day 4 with Paul Tudor Jones. This is a guy that Tony Robbins has coached for decades and is one of the most successful traders out there. For those of you who have not heard of him, he Founded Robin Hood, which is a platform that has raised billions of dollars under the banner of low fees, automation and so forth. He’s been successful with those entrepreneurial ventures but also trading as well. I want to set some context of his remarks because he was at the airport on his way to the Federal Reserve. He was on their advisory board and/or the advisory board was going to be hearing from him. He had prepared some words and some statements for them. That was his mindset. It’s interesting.

Some of the things he said are the managing or governing member of this specific panel that he was going to talk to wants higher inflation. He wants growth. What Paul was saying we’re in unprecedented times because we have the lowest interest rates in history. We have the lowest unemployment almost in history, but we have the highest budget deficits and it’s difficult to cut. Erik Prince of Blackwater said that “The US needs to go on a diet.” We need to experience scarcity to expose the waste and get rid of the waste. Paul said that the majority of the US budget is fixed. There is no discretion as far as cutting here or cutting there. He said, “78% of the US budget is fixed.” Whether that’s interest on the debt or whether that’s your unfunded liabilities, your social benefits, Medicaid or Social Security.

He said that an economy that has the lowest unemployment, lowest interest rates should be running budget surpluses, but we’re running budget deficits. It means that we’re spending as a country $1 trillion more than we bring in an all tax revenue, which is insane. That’s his mindset. He’s always looking for opportunities. He’s going to the Fed to speak his mind. He’s there to give them feedback. He’s there to give them information. He’s not going to be able to go in there and change their mind, because a lot of influential people speak to them. He goes in there with challenging their thoughts. This was a great way to do it, saying, “We are in these unprecedented times. You want all this growth, yet you’re printing your way to growth.”

He also alluded to financial asset inflation. You’re getting growth, but they’re not getting growth in the areas that they want it. That’s mainly due to those that are using low-interest rates. It’s mainly businesses and institutions. They’re not using it for productive purposes. They’re not using it to hire more people. They’re using it to push up their stock value and so forth. That’s one example. A few of the other things that he said is when he’s making investment decisions. His decision is based on a 5:1 ratio. He loses a lot. Tony has referred to this before, where Paul Tudor Jones would send him trades every day from an accountability standpoint. A lot of the times he was losing, half the time he’s losing. When he wins, he’s shooting for a 5:1 win and that 5:1 makes up for all of those losses and some. It’s an interesting way of looking at it. He also alluded to the markets. He was referring specifically to the S&P was at a 22 Price to Earnings Ratio, PE ratio. If you go back to some of the ratios that were pre-2008, pre-2001 with the dot-com crash, we were at 27:1, so there’s still some room to go.

He also made it seem that between now and the end of the elections, he also alluded to the markets being priced for a Trump win, but there’s not going to be much volatility. If anything, there’s going to be growth and there’s room to grow as well. There’s also room for more stimulus. I mentioned with regards to QE4, which is the repo markets and the fed being able to provide additional liquidity by injecting liquidity with collateral being these highly valued assets like treasuries and so forth. He said that we’re in the time where you can compare it to Arnold Schwarzenegger’s movie Pumping Iron where he was hugely jacked and boosting all these weights and veins popping everywhere. It was all based on him in steroids and doing it artificially. That’s what he said. He made the statement at the end that made everybody laugh, which is, “These are the best two hours of your life.” It’s 11:00 PM or 10:00 PM, the last hours of the day. “It’s going to be the greatest two hours.” He eluded to whether it’s drinking or partying, but you’re going to have a massive hangover once that happens, alluding to the economy as a whole.

He also got into where things are going. The demand has enhanced where he’s seeing more socially and environmentally conscious investors. He also created a fund that is backed by Goldman Sachs called JUST Capital. It’s a fund where there is a specific set of criteria for all the different companies that are within this fund there are socially environmentally conscious as well as have a more even keel distribution of resources than fiduciary responsibility to shareholders. He was alluding to taking care of employees, paying above-market wages, also being charitably conscious and forth. It’s interesting and fun. Paul Tudor Jones was a great speaker.

If you're looking to construct the way in which you invest based on the last 20 to 30 years, that is a losing strategy. Click To Tweet

Greig Weiler And The Four Fources

I’ll get into some stuff that’s a little bit more exciting. Two more speakers and then we’re done. The first was fascinating. This guy had much energy and he was one of those resourceful people and his history has shown it. His name is Greg Wyler. He runs OneWeb, which is 5G-based. It’s more of a satellite system and Tarana. It is the biggest competitor to Comcast to broadband. His background is he laid the majority of fiber in Africa and he has deep, intimate knowledge of that country and what’s going on there. I’ve alluded to more youth in Africa than double the population of the United States. Africa is booming. It’s crazy. There’s a lot of youth. These are people under the age of twenty amounting to hundreds of millions and they know what’s going on in the other parts of the world. Once they’re connected, it gives them huge opportunities.

He’s started laying fiber in Africa, networking and connecting schools. He has a platform where you can go check out the connectivity of schools in Africa. It’s called ProjectConnect.world. He said that the youth are waiting for this. He also realized that by experiencing laying fiber throughout the country, the internet that way is not going to work. That’s where he started to get into the satellite business. He’s been there for several decades. OneWeb is one of the companies he’s running. It purchased rights for a particular frequency in space. This is outside of my realm of understanding, but that frequency is almost exclusively owned by them. He has some of the more modern satellites that can move and navigate. He said that it’s getting busy up in space and satellites are getting more dangerous because they can start to collide. That’s not good for any satellite system.

His company, OneWeb has figured out some techniques to mitigate those risks. Those risks exist for a lot of other companies that are putting satellites into space for this purpose. Tarana is this first broadband company to compete with Comcast. It’s a $6,000 a unit. You can attach it to a building and it provides a unique way of 5G connectivity. One gig up, one gig down and it’s extremely low-cost. He said that $1 million in infrastructure costs. $1 million could create 1G up and down for the entire city of Sacramento. If it’s $1 million in costs, it’s amazing. That’s where things are going.

He also alluded to this is a huge opportunity because 20 million people in the United States do not have good internet, if any internet, which is surprising. It’s a huge opportunity there. Greg was a great guest. You can tell he’s super socially conscious and entrepreneurial. The money he raised for OneWeb or one of the first satellite companies he had was $1.5 billion. There was no proof any of it was going to work, but he hustled, grinded and figured out a way to make it happen. I’m following him. He’s a go-getter but also is doing a lot of good in different parts of the world, mainly the emerging markets. The last individual I’ll talk about is Michael Smorch and he has worked with lots of different VCs and hedge funds and has been around the block. I enjoyed some of his thoughts. He said that if you’re looking to construct the way in which you invest based in the last several years, it is a losing strategy. He said everything is exponentially growing and emerging. A lot of opportunities are no longer in the US. The opportunity is in emerging markets.

He said that four forces will tell the future. First is there’s going to be geopolitical alignment and he alluded to China. All of these speakers have alluded to China, with the coronavirus, it’s going to be interesting to see how that creates disruption, but at the same time, because of that huge dependence on China, other opportunities are emerging because of this. This is the nature of capitalism and entrepreneurs and it mainly had to do with bringing the supply chain closer to the actual end-user, which is 3D printing. He alluded to 3D printing. The first is the geopolitical alignment. He said that China-based on its influence controls the majority of patents for 4G and it’s controlled by Huawei. There’s this continual alignment of these two big forces, China and America. It’d be interesting to see how that comes to fruition.

The next one is the digital revolution. It’s no longer Moore’s Law, which is the doubling of computing power. It’s Neven’s Law. It’s the acceleration of acceleration. He also alluded to that. He said that AI is coming online in many different areas. We use it in our database but AI is essentially creating the ease of some of the backend work in order to make better decisions. It’s coming in everything. Insurance, investment, school, on our device, the wearables and being able to have the information so that we know, “Eat this, stand up, do some exercise.” It is getting more and more accurate to help us live better lives, to help us to use our energy to make meaningful decisions as opposed to the stuff we have to spend our energy on, which can be eliminated. The third force is Millennials. He alluded to different studies that showed that Millennials pretty much hate all of their parents’ assets.

TWS 8 | Tony Robbins Finance Summit

Tony Robbins Finance Summit: Tony Robbins’ events can impact your ability to create wealth.


They hate gold, they hate the market or they want different advice, more robo advising cheaper funds as opposed to speaking to financial advisors. There was also a study that if they had an extra $1,000 in discretionary money, what would they buy? It was over 40% who would buy Bitcoin and all the other options were like a mutual fund, cash or gold. It’s a different demographic. Also, he alluded to their peak in spending is coming within the next couple of years. To give some context to that, some reference to that, if you look at the Baby Boomer peak of spending, that was in the early ‘80s. If you look at the boom and the economy in the ’80s and ’90s, these were the greatest growth years in pretty much in history. He said that’s coming soon in the next couple of years for Millennials.

The third force is the environmental change. This is interesting. I hadn’t thought about this before, but he used a great example. He said that there is global warming. One of his biggest clients is a dynasty family in Italy who has massive wineries and they can’t grow. It’s too dry in Italy and they can’t grow like they used to. They picked up a massive plot of farming land in Patagonia. He said that those that are growing are going North and also going South toward each of the poles because things are warming up. Those are the four forces. It’s geopolitical alignment, the digital revolution, Millennials and environmental change. It came down to the Holy Grail. The Holy Grail is his way of getting these asymmetric types of returns. The companies or the industries, the environments that are going to have this asymmetric growth have a growth story behind it. There has to be a massive market. The audience that would take advantage of whatever the sector was had to be massive. It also is something that hardly anyone owns, especially institutions. They’re not there yet, but it captures the heart and minds of people. It’s movement-based.

Finally, it creates forced buying, like Comcast. If you want a good internet, you only have 1 or 2 options. It’s a forced buying situation. The example he gave is number one, space, whether it’s SpaceX. There’s also an ETF that owns a lot of these space types of companies, which has a ticker symbol of UFO of all things. This is an environment where whether it’s the satellite idea. There’s a guy I met that has a company that does transportation in space, both from satellites to the space station. There’s a huge environment, whether it’s mining asteroids. There are tons of opportunities there. That’s one example. With our new military force, space force, which I could do a Donald Trump impersonation of, but I can’t. That’s another example of where things are going.

The last one is Biotech. That was another example he gave of this Holy Grail of asymmetric type of opportunities. It’s a growth story, a massive market, something hardly anybody owns already, especially institutions. It captures the hearts and minds of people and it also creates force buying. He said biotech was one of those other things where we do a lot to respond to getting sick or pain. Biotech is getting to the preventative. We know in advance what needs to be done in order to avoid that. Those are a couple of examples. This was a great couple of days for me. Hopefully, you got a lot out of my thoughts on what I learned. I encourage you to take the opportunity to come to one of these Tony Robbins events, the basic one. Come to the UPW if you haven’t been.

This is an environment that pushes you outside of your comfort levels. It’s an environment that forces you to grow. There’s much on the other side of this environment that will help you with your relationships with business. It’ll facilitate an even more meaningful life. I know that’s what everyone’s after, especially myself. I hope you guys take advantage of this opportunity. If you call my guy, Jeff, over at Tony Robbins, he’ll hook you up. It’s a little bit too late maybe for the March event, but Chicago is in the summer and then New York City is in the late fall. Hopefully, you were able to take advantage of it because I know it will impact your ability to create wealth. It’ll impact your ability to take your life, your business, your family, your relationships to the next level. I can’t wait to hear your feedback and stories about it. Thanks again and we’ll catch you next time.

Important Links:

Event Details:
Tony Robbins Unleash The Power Within
San Jose, CA
March 12-15, 2020
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Retail = $1,795
Discounted price = $795
To register for the event and take advantage of your special listener discount, please contact:
Jeffre Arguello
Phone: 858-535-6271
Be sure to mention that you are a listener of The Wealth Standard!

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