Capitalizing On The Massive Economic Shift Through Multifamily Real Estate With Michael Becker

TWS 85 | Multifamily Real Estate


There is a massive economic shift going on that comes with a corresponding demographic shift towards areas with lower living costs and tax requirements. In what way is this development conducive to multifamily real estate? Joining Patrick Donohoe on the show, SPI Advisory Principal Michael Becker invites us to take a look at the case of Texas, specifically the DFW market, and how the changes going on in the economy are giving rise to massive opportunities to invest, whether actively or passively, in this no-income-tax state. Whether you’re looking to set up your own mom-and-pop or you just want to let your money do the work by involving yourself with REITs or syndications, terms are going to be very favorable for you in Texas and other areas that have been at the receiving end of the massive in-migration of people and businesses from more costly metros like New York and California. Join in to learn more on how you can start to build more wealth by capitalizing on these changes!

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Capitalizing On The Massive Economic Shift Through Multifamily Real Estate With Michael Becker

My guest is Michael Becker. He is the Principal at SPI Advisory firm and also the host of The Multifamily Investing Podcast. You can check him out at I wanted to have Michael on for a few reasons. First, I had Ken McElroy on a few episodes back, speaking about what’s going on in the economy in multifamily investing. I wanted to have Michael on as well to emphasize some points that Ken and I talked about then in that show. Many real estate investors start out excited. They see potential, opportunity but it becomes a job of sorts, hence the word active.

What I’ve seen is people gravitate toward more passive types of investment. Multifamily investment is an excellent way for accredited investors mostly to invest for cashflow in a passive way. The second reason is I believe our economy is shifting. Richard Duncan was on a few episodes back, and we spoke a lot about what’s going on in the economy, what’s likely to happen and what’s happening. It’s causing some seismic shifts. You are having some big capital flows impact things. You also have immigration, people moving from state to state based on the ability to work remotely, leaving a high cost of living areas, high tax areas. You also have a gist of emotion that’s driving investments up, driving some investments down, fundamentals are out the window and there’s a lot more. Multifamily is an ideal way to capitalize on some of these shifts.

It’s dependent on the market, but I wanted to have Michael on because his specialty is Texas. I look at the economy and human nature. It’s not a straight line. It’s not always predictable. In fact, I don’t think it’s predictable that often. There are variables that can lead to outcomes. At the same time, humans are odd where they make decisions that are irrational and subsequently cause their behavior, what they do to not be a straight line, but to be more of a curved line. We’re seeing that with a lot of movement out of high-income tax states like California, into states like Utah, Nevada, Arizona and Texas, which is a no-income-tax state.

This movement is going to continue. That’s how people behave when there’s more money taken from them, where there’s a high cost of living. I believe that Texas has a very interesting economy and there are a lot of people that are moving there. There are additional benefits to multifamily investment and there are risks. Make sure you do your due diligence. I’ve known Michael for several years. I think you’re going to enjoy the interview and make sure you go check his podcast out and learn more about investing passively in multifamily. Thanks, guys.

Michael, it’s awesome to have you on. First off, congrats on your podcast.

Thanks for having me on. It’s been a while.

First, talk about your podcast. How’s it going?

People stay in the rental pool longer now that they would have many years ago, further increasing the demand for multifamily real estate. Click To Tweet

It’s good. I’ve been the co-host of the Old Capital Real Estate Investing Podcast for many years. In 2020, I started a show called The Multifamily Investing Show with Michael Becker. It’s a video-audio show done in a studio. I’m focusing on high-level guests in the multifamily industry brokers, owners that own tens of thousands of units. If you’re an apartment nerd, it’s probably a place for you. We’re talking about the industry and all the various things that go into it.

It’s an interesting time. With COVID, housing and markets have been shaken up because of relocation. A lot of companies are moving to a hybrid or full-on remote working environment, which makes a lot of sense. People have figured that dynamic out. Maybe speak to what you’re seeing with regards to occupants of multifamily, apartment complexes and what the behavior is of people. Reference specifically Texas because I know Texas is the recipient of a lot of immigration.

It’s important to talk about the perception or view I have of the world is coming from you, from Dallas, Texas. We own multifamily properties in Dallas, Austin. We’re expanding into San Antonio. That’s what my lens of the world is colored with. We’ve done about 10,000 units in the last decade or so. We own about 6,500 units give or take as I talked to you between Dallas-Fort Worth and Austin is where we’re focused. That matters because if I’m sitting here talking to you from New York City or San Francisco, I probably have a different lens of the world than what I do from Dallas.

It’s funny, we’re in this backward world and a lot of ways where generic suburban multifamily, and Dallas-Fort Worth trade at lower cap rates than multifamily on the Island of Manhattan does and whatever world have you been in where Manhattan Island has a higher cap rate than a generic Dallas does. It doesn’t make sense in a historical context. It’s been an interesting year. We’re at the end of Q1 2021. This time in 2020 where I’m stuck in my house and wondering if we’re going to collect rent in April 2020 because everything started to shut down in mid-March 2020. Every day we are wondering if we’re going to collect 50% or 60% of our rent.

The reality turned out to be much better. In a normal month going into COVID, we’d probably have about 1% of our scheduled rent is be delinquent or non-collectible. We’d collect 99% or better. In the early months, we went from about 97%, 96%. The worst we got was probably around Christmas time between Thanksgiving and Christmas, we got to about 95%. We collected about 5% to 6% delinquent portfolio-wide in Dallas-Fort Worth. That’s not great, but it’s manageable. We’ve seen an uptick as we get to Q1. Seasonally, a lot of our tenants every year around Christmas time prioritize buying Christmas gifts over paying rent. That’s a normal high watermark for delinquency.

We’re doing well. Occupancy is full. We’re 95% plus across the portfolio over 6,000 units on average. That’s higher than what it has been in the last several years. Places are full. We do have a small contingency of people within our units that are multiple months behind and they have the eviction moratoriums. Most people probably have heard or read headlines about the CDCs, put some eviction moratoriums in.

As we are talking, it’s about to expire, but we anticipate the Joe Biden administration extending that, but the counteract that we’ve been seeing, some of the stimulus money from the December $900 billion stimulus bill, and then I was added on with the $1.9 trillion stimulus bill out of some rental assistance. We’re in the process of probably collecting 75% or 80% of those large balances that we otherwise would have evicted those residents. The 75% or 80% of that would probably be collectible. I have manually written that money off. It’s going to be like a windfall. Magic money comes out of nowhere or maybe there’ll be no ramifications. We’ll see what the real-world ramifications are.

It’s one of those give and takes. When you put those eviction provisions in there, even though people might be able to pay their rent, they’re not. The mortgage industry from those who owned homes, being able to go into forbearance without having to be foreclosed on, people may have had the capacity to pay their mortgage, yet took advantage of that. That dynamic is interesting too. If they include those elements of the stimulus bill where they would pay back landlords, it would have been weighted in the favor of tenants and would hurt landlords.

It’s obvious that they put those different points in the bill to pay back landlords for the bill that they were paying over the course of time. Maybe speak to the role that multifamily is playing in society nowadays. The big apartment complex, who’s the tenant, why is there demand? Where are we at with the cycle of demographics and the demand especially in Texas for housing, specifically apartments?

TWS 85 | Multifamily Real Estate

Multifamily Real Estate: The current demand for multifamily comes from a variety of sources, from young people right out of college, all the way to empty-nesters and a whole bunch in between.


It’s a variety of sources for demand anywhere from young people, right out of college, or young working professionals, all the way to empty nesters and a whole bunch in-between. It’s across the current of all society types and depending on the type of asset you own. We own anywhere from workforce housing to brand new Class-A stuff. We see a little bit of everything, but in your workforce housing, it’s a lot of blue-collar-type tenants. People that work manual jobs, construction, work at Starbucks, serve your coffee in the morning, to the nicer newer stuff where you rent or buy by choice more than necessity. Where either you want to be in the urban coordinator amenities when they were open and active.

We’re starting to come back a little bit. That was a lot of your gateway cities people that want to be next to the museums and the restaurants, the nightlife and etc. There were a lot of suburban people as well. We have a lot of suburban multifamily in my portfolio. We get some families in Dallas-Fort Worth disbursement of jobs is not just concentrated in the urban core is well dispersed throughout the metropolitan areas is a bunch of pockets of employment throughout the whole region. People want to live close to those suburban jobs. It’s a little bit of everything and seeing the demands insatiable. A lot of that demands are driven here locally by the migration that we’re seeing, a lot of the corporate relocations that have taken from the higher-tax states, predominantly California.

We see a lot of California reloads to Texas for big corporations. They bring people or jobs and hire people locally. We’ll get a little bit of a transitory population. A lot of people come into the market. They don’t typically buy a house. A lot of the large segment of the population doesn’t buy a house out of the gate to go rent for a year or two until they realize that they want to stay in the area and then to find out what part of town fits their lifestyle best, then be in such a large metropolitan area. We were like 7.7 million people. We are the fourth largest metro in the country which should surpass Chicago in the next many years.

There’s a lot of cross-market movement as well. People will move from this part of town to that part of town. Austin, which is the other market I focus on is a little bit younger city than Dallas-Fort Worth even. You get a lot more tech jobs. It’s more liberal than the greater Dallas-Fort Worth area. There are a lot of people coming from the Bay Area who tend to relocate to Austin. That tends to be a higher rent or concentrated market than even Dallas-Fort Worth.

Every market is different. Some markets are different. It’s across all current populations across demographics cross country. You see a lot of younger people not married. The natural delay of people getting married gets older and older. We tend to see in our renter demographics, people stay in the rental pool longer than maybe they would have many years ago when you and I were probably renting out first apartments before we got married and had houses.

Speak to how does someone invest in apartment buildings? There’s clearly an opportunity, especially in Texas, with the demand coming in and most likely is not going to end anytime soon. How does someone invest? You have some of the institutional types of investments, like real estate investment trusts. You’re starting to see more crowdfunding opportunities. What are the different and predominant ways? Speak to the way in which you’ve learned to set up investments so that people can invest?

It’s anywhere from a mom and pop landlording where you go buy a ten-unit deal with your own money, run it, collect rent yourself, and fix the leaky toilet yourself, all the way to sophisticated institutional ownership groups that are public and trader reaps that are best institutional quality properties and everything in between. We’re in-between where I’m an apartment syndicator. It’s what I think of myself. We do private equity. We raise capital from high net worth individuals. I know you had Ken McElroy on, our mutual friend. I do a very similar model to what he does, where we go raise from high net worth individuals $100,000 at a time.

The syndication model is popular nowadays and it’s much more popular than many years ago when I got started. The crowdfunding was starting with the JOBS Act in 2012 when that came out, which allowed you to raise money from people you don’t have a preexisting and substantive relationship with, so you can do advertising and that’s when all those crowdfunding portals popped up. What I’ve found through my raising $250 million to $300 million equity that we raised over the last decade or so, people do business with people they know, like and trust. You can try to have all this technology, which is great to be efficient, but at the end of the day, if they don’t, one, get to know who you are. Two, get to know, like and trust you, and didn’t find you credible, they’re not going to invest in your deal.

There are certain timeless principles in real estate, but at the end of the day, markets are always going to shift. Click To Tweet

A lot of it is going to different real estate investing clubs. We have a podcast. Referrals are big things. Getting out there, getting network, and knowing people, getting referrals, that’s where we source most of the people that invest with us. From there, we take all different types of investment from cash. People have money to buy their trusts and LLCs. Retirement is a big chunk of that as well. A lot of people invest through self-directed IRAs or solo 401(k)s, and they get it out of the financial system, and the main mainstream financial system through Wall Street, and put it in the “alternative investments” like multifamily, syndications or the likes.

That’s how it is. It is evolved quite a bit with the crowdfunding platforms. You can take that software and raise money efficiently. It’s all virtual through our online portal and you fill out paper electronically wired, and it’s streamlined where we first started out. You had to email someone something, they print it off, hand fill it, scan it or fax it back to you. There’s a lot more laborious. It’s been a good transition from a technological standpoint and moved the industry forward quite a bit.

As you’re raising money or private capital, where has the focus been? Are there opportunities that exist that you’re buying into, or are you buying into dilapidated complexes that you fix up? Especially based on demand, are you seeing opportunities to develop ground-up projects?

Everything in the above is something that works. What we focused on when we first started out, we did a lot of workforce housing. Texas in the 1960s or 1970s, that’s when we first started seeing large-scale multifamily properties built in the region generally speaking. That’s most of our older stock. We’re not like New York where you can buy a 100-plus-year-old building because Texas didn’t have very many people. Hundred years ago, we didn’t have AC. Most of our apartment stock is a lot younger than if you’re in the Northeast then, their C-class stuff might be 100 years old, where our stuff is 40 or 50 years old. Buying that, renovating it, increasing the rents through renovations, that was very popular, still is nowadays with where we’re focused.

Over the last many years, we’ve been slowly transitioning in older stuff, buying newer, better, bigger. This has been a function of the marketplace where when I started out there used to be a larger spread. The rates of returns, you can get by buying older, tougher deals compared to newer deals. Commercial real estate, multifamily included trade on cap rates or what we call Capitalization Rates. It’s like your unleveraged return. If I were to buy a building that produces $100,000 in net operating income, so all the income that I get is less all my operating expenses excluding my debt. If I produce $100,000 and I bought it on a 10 cap, I would pay $1 million for that $100,000 income stream.

If I bought it on a 5 cap, I’d pay $2 million for that same income stream. My rate of return would be 10% if I paid $1 million or 5% if I pay $2 million. What happened many years ago to nowadays is those cap rates used to be maybe 3% of point spread between the top of the grade and the bottom of the grade. I’d pay an 8 cap for a C class deal when I started and a 5 cap for an A class deal. Now those cap rates are basically on top of each other where most of these caps are somewhere around 4% nowadays in Texas. We’re irrespective of location quality. To me, it doesn’t make as much sense to pay the same or similar cap rate for something built in the ‘70s that I can for a brand-new deal.

We’ve been trading up and buying bigger, better, nicer things and getting similar cap rates. That’s been the evolution of our business over the last many years. It’s been a good trade for us. They are developing it. People keep moving here. We need to supply more housing because there’s a demand for it, especially in Dallas-Fort Worth, and also markets where I predominantly focus. If data is done well and right, that certainly is a good business model as well. You have different levels of risks because you start a project now and two years later before yet you start leasing units and collecting rent. A lot of things can happen in between then. You hear the headlines all the input costs, labor, land, lumber in particular, are all going up. You could start a project with certain economics and then lumber, which is maybe 15% or 20% of your costs could double, then that could blow your profit out quickly.

Speak to the economics of interest rates too because you’re not buying these things in cash. You’re raising private equity, but then you’re utilizing a mortgage and debt. From what I recall, that’s your background. It’s where you started in the financing side of multifamily. What’s the market nowadays, and why has that helped with the opportunity in multifamily?

My professional background is in commercial real estate lending. In the last part of my banking career, I focused on multifamily lending and that’s how I cut my teeth in the business. One thing I’ve learned from being a banker and a borrower for a long time is whatever the environment is, it’s always changing over time. You’ve got certain principles that are timeless, but at the end of the day, the markets are always shifting wherein the multifamily space, the agencies, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are the two largest lenders, not only single-family space, but they’re the largest lenders in the multifamily space as well.

TWS 85 | Multifamily Real Estate

Multifamily Real Estate: We need to supply more housing because there is a demand for it, especially in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.


The only lenders that were loaning money this time in 2020 where the agencies were Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac because of a mandate to do it and all the other lenders shut off. It was impossible, but it was next to impossible to get a loan that was in an agency loan because there are so much fear and uncertainty in the marketplace. It’s turned off. For the better part of 2020, if you wanted to buy a multifamily property, you are going to get a most likely a Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac loan. They have these caps that are mandated by the regulator FHFA.

They started getting full because that was the only game in town. To slow the demand, they started increasing their spreads. They charge on the interest rates of their indexes, the ten-year treasury or LIBOR, depending on which you floated or fixed it. They’d become less competitive. At the same time, the alternative lenders like your banks or life insurance companies, they have some debt bonds out there that are prominent popular. Those were completely on the sidelines. Now they started loaning money, and then they realized that they didn’t loan any money in 2020 or they’re way behind their projected goals. They needed to get some assets out. They started getting a lot more competitive on the leverage that their offer, interest rates, fees, etc. They’ve been trying to win the business.

The marketplace nowadays is shifting, and we’re doing a couple of deals where we do a bank loan, and we’re about to do a life insurance bridge loan where before it would be 100% Freddie Mac loan, where nowadays is not. It’s always ever-evolving. That’s one of the things that you need to stay on top of, and what’s separates the good from the better within the industry is paying attention to the debt because it’s 65% to 75% of the capital stack with the remainder 75% debt and 25% equity. It’s a large part of the business and staying on top of that.

It’s the key. It’s always evolving and ever-changing, but the multifamily space is a darling of the commercial real estate industry. We get the most favorable terms relative. Let’s say, like an office building, a retail building, or a hotel, they have much inferior debt markets than what we have in the multifamily space are. It helps the returns and then the environment that we’ve been in for several years. Particularly, in 2020, we’ve seen extremely low interest rates. It makes the returns you can get on your assets go up quite a bit. That’s why we’ve been seeing these cap rates get lower because people were able to pay more for that same income stream because our cost of capital is lower. They can produce similar returns even if they have to pay more because the debt market is low.

In the first quarter of 2021, we’ve seen rates take back up on the long end of the curve, but on the short end, your LIBOR, SOFR, the indexes are 1 and 11 basis points respectively nowadays so it’s zero. All these adjustable-rate mortgages, we took out a couple of years ago. In other words, I’m printing money on those deals because these indexes are zero. We have many loans out that have a sub 2% interest rate on them that we took out a few years ago. It’s a free money, which is unbelievable.

You know Richard Duncan and I had him on. He was talking about the massive amount of excess reserves that banks are carrying. It’s going to continue for quite some time as far as 2021 is concerned. The interest rates are going to keep it that low. Michael, let’s wrap up with two points. Describe what you’re seeing in some of the stimulus bills in regards to multifamily. I know we briefly touched on how eviction moratoriums were in place, but now part of the stimulus is to essentially pay back those missed rents. Can you speak to that, and other provisions you’re seeing, and the $1.9 trillion? In the end, speak to your typical investor. What are they looking for? What’s their financial profile so readers of the show can identify with that, potentially reach out to you, and learn more about multifamily or at least start listening to your podcast.

With the $900 billion stimulus that passed in late 2020, they had earmarked about $25 billion approximately for rental assistance within that greater bill. That money was distributed to the states. The states and local housing authorities would then disperse that money. It took a while to get the programs going. In February 2021, they started rolling out in Texas and every state has different rules, but they were allowed to go back to March of 2020 and three months forward. At this point, you could get it. If someone had not paid me their rent in the whole year, I could get a whole year with a back rent plus three months’ forward to get caught up. There’s some paperwork to fill out that both on the property and on the resident side that proved that their loss their income.

We had over 6,400 to 6,500 units. We had somewhere around $600,000 in accrued accumulated deferred rent over that twelve-month period. That’s relatively instead of getting on a percentage basis in the grand scheme of things. It’s a lot of money in the real world. We anticipate that we’re probably going to collect $450,000 to $500,000 of that. That would tell you if there’s about 75% to 80% of that. I tell you there’s probably 20% to 25% fraud within the system where these residents could have otherwise paid, just said that they didn’t have a job.

Multifamily is the darling of the commercial real estate industry. It tends to get the most favorable terms. Click To Tweet

They filed a fraudulent CDC declaration to stay an eviction. That’s what roughly I’m deducing from what we’re about to experience so then those people are going to be evicted and credit ruined, etc. because they can’t produce the paperwork that showed they lost their job. There’s somewhere around that type of fraud in the entire system. With all the stimulus stuff is why Michael Becker’s cowboy Math is here. That’s how much waste is out there. I know you said Richard Duncan doesn’t believe there’s going to be inflation and he thinks rates are going to be low. I concur that I think rates are going to be low. There’s so much excess liquidity on the system that is going to drive it down.

On the short end of the curve, you’re floating adjustable-rate mortgages. Your two-year treasury rates will stay low for a while. We’ve seen a little pressure on the ten-year treasury, but I don’t think that’s going to go very far either. I think we’re range-bound somewhere around where we are for a period of time. If it starts going, the Fed will start doing yield curve control and start buying the long into the bonds and then keep it from going. I do believe there is inflation. They mask it with having a flawed calculation. If they would calculate CPA as they did many years ago, we would see a lot of inflation because you look at all the input costs to all the real things of the world, the oil, lumber and you try to get an appliance package.

They’re doubled in the last several years to get the same basic appliance. All these input costs are going up. I can promise you looking at my portfolio with 95% occupancy, all this back rent about to get paid, all these people moving here, and the input costs to build a new multifamily product going up. We’re raising our rents. We see in the markets I play in. We had a flat year. Austin was negative 2%, Dallas is positive 1%, and rental rate growth, as a market as a whole in 2020, in spite of everything, it’s relatively tamed. It was flat. We see 5% to 6% rent growth in 2021. Real-time when I’m trading out my old leases, my new leases, that’s what we’re seeing and we need to because these places are full.

We’re able to push rents. That’s what I’m seeing. I believe there’s inflation out there in the things that matter, like housing, and buying a car or trying to drive a new one with oil. There’s real inflation there. I don’t see what’s going to stop it. Seeing the pricing of these things feels like we wrap it up in the first quarter of 2021. It feels like prices moved $20,000 a unit citywide, both in Austin and Dallas, because there’s so much capital coming here. It’s insatiable the amount of demand because all these people that were previously investing in the coastal markets are starting to look in the center of the country and Arizona, Florida, Texas, Georgia, the Carolinas, those are on the end market.

California, New York and Seattle are on the out markets. That money is coming here and a lot of money is rotating out. If you want to make commercial real estate, it’s hard to invest in hospitality, retail or even office. They’re rotating out of those sectors more into industrial and multifamily. There’s more money chasing it. At the same time, they printed 25% or so of the money circulation was generated in the several months or something like that. This is all money sloshing around and it’s going into risk assets like commercial real estate. It’s disproportionately going to multifamily. We’re seeing prices accelerate.

You have the dynamic of when somebody moves from California, first off, tax savings. Second, they’re going from $3,500 to $2,000 a month for an apartment or maybe less. You have the built-in flexibility where raising rents by 5% to 6% will be a no-brainer for most.

TWS 85 | Multifamily Real Estate

Multifamily Real Estate: Rates are going to be low. There’s so much excess liquidity on the system that is going to drive it down.


That’s what we’re seeing. I’m still bullish on Texas multifamily. We have done well. One of the things is talking to investors that have been with us for a while. Leading up to the COVID lockdowns, people would talk to me about what happened in the prior decade, the teams basically. What seemed to me was in the Dallas-Fort Worth, in the workforce housing space, in particular, rents much doubled in the last many years. The price has tripled because the rent has doubled and then the cap rates compress. It’s the combination of those two things. This hasn’t stopped. We went on hibernation for about three months, got right back at it and prices didn’t move at all.

If you had the ability and the guts to buy something in that 2 or 3-month period in April or May 2020, maybe you got a 3% to 5% discount if you bought it in that two-month period, and someone was willing to sell. Most everyone else took their ball, went home for a few months, and put the head back up and things were okay in the multifamily space, at least. Most people that come to us, your second party question was, we get a diverse investor base. Mostly high net worth people from various industries, either they have a good income, make over six figures, accumulate some money and want to get a return. We have some business owners, doctors, a lot of people that pay high-income taxes, especially in the coastal markets where you not only pay the Federal Income Tax.

You pay California, not only Uncle Sam, but Uncle Gab out in California. They come to multifamily space and they get some good tax savings with the depreciation, the law, the way it’s written at is favorable for the multifamily industry. We see quite a bit of that. Business owners, you see a lot of people that even have bought some commercial real estate that appreciated, and they want to stay into space. It was a diverse mix of people. We would finish up our tax returns not too long ago. We did $1,300 and $50,000 ones for the 2020 tax year. We have 700 or so unique investors that invested with us. We are growing by the day seemingly. It’s been a good business and bullish on multifamily in Texas.

I don’t see what is going to stop that. Immigration wasn’t going to stop the price appreciation because rents are going to grow. Was fuel ever going up? I don’t see how it let interest rates rise to any material respect. If they do let it rise, it’s going to make single-family housing, even that much more expensive to own, which will then further drive rental rates up. All things being equal. There’s a world full of bad options from an investment standpoint. If you want to get some yield, you’ve got to take some level of risk and there’s no rule. You can’t go get a 5%, one-year CD as you could have many years ago. If you want yield, you got to put risks either in the stock market or some investment as I do or various other things out there. All things being equal among the better asset classes out there, which is why I dedicated my career to it.

Michael, thanks for your time. Thanks for sharing your expertise. What’s the best way readers can follow you to learn more about multifamily investing?

I appreciate you having me on. Hopefully, we see each other for the next cruise sometime. The best way is to go to a company’s website, which is There’s a Contact Us form. You fill that out. We’ll happy to send out information about what would we do and potentially working with us.

What a crazy time to be an investor. At the same time, there are lots of opportunities out there if you know what you’re looking for.

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About Michael Becker

Michael Becker is a Principal at SPI Advisory LLC and heads SPI’s Dallas, Texas office where he oversees all aspects of property operations, including asset management, property management oversight, accounting and taxation, capital improvement and renovation projects and investor relations. Michael is a lifelong resident of North Texas and a graduate of The University of North Texas with a BBA in Finance. He is married and has two young children.

Michael is a 15 year veteran Commercial Real Estate Banker and has originated and managed numerous portfolios of permanent and bridge loans in all major asset classes. Over the last 5 years of his banking tenure, Michael focused exclusively on multi-family properties, where he was the number one loan producer for his division at a Top 3 National lender for his last 3 consecutive years.

As a Portfolio Manager, Michael directly oversaw the management and financial performance of the countless C & B class Multi-Family properties he originated loans for. As a result, he accumulated an exceedingly diverse network of suppliers, contractors, consultants and service providers during his tenure. This gives him the ability to quickly and efficiently implement a breadth of value-added strategies for a fraction of the typical cost.

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Exploring Alternative Investment Opportunities With Dave Zook

TWS 36 | Alternative Investments

There is no question that in some areas, there’s been a tremendous loss in the typical investments, especially with the tax law changes. Unknown to many, there are great opportunities that exist in the form of alternative investments. Joining Patrick Donohoe on the show today is Dave Zook, the Founder, and CEO of The Real Asset Investor. Dave is a successful business owner and an experienced real estate investor active in multifamily apartments, self-storage, and ATM space. Together, they explore Dave’s investment philosophy as well as his strategies for making investments and structuring deals especially with the current state of the market.

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Exploring Alternative Investment Opportunities With Dave Zook

I hope you are doing well. I’m going to stay on topic and the course of our theme this season about alternative investments. First, I’ve had a lot of you reach out to me about the earthquake that happened in Salt Lake City. I was in my office sitting right in that chair over my shoulder. It was a 5.7 earthquake. I’ve never been in an earthquake before. What a rush of adrenaline. I didn’t know what to do. I felt like the whole building was going to come down on me. My wife called, I answered and I could hardly talk. I was wired with adrenaline and energy. Thanks for reaching out. I appreciate that. Everything’s good. The building is old but she survived. There’s no noticeable damage, the same thing with the house. I live in about 3 or 4 miles east of here. Everything is good as if the change in the chaos wasn’t enough with the Coronavirus and how the world changed and the earthquake on top of it.

We’ve had a bunch of aftershocks but all good. I hope that you are taking advantage of this opportunity. I don’t mean capitalizing on business or investment opportunity but I would say capitalizing on being a different standard than how the status quo responds to times like this. Shutting down, being afraid, hiding in a corner and sitting on the sidelines. Getting into the game when you’re winning or you’re playing a team weaker than you, I don’t think that’s winning and success. These are the times when it puts you in the position of very simple choices and it’s a choice of mindset. It’s not a one-time decision, it’s a decision that has to be made daily. It’s to choose to rise to the occasion, choosing to be the leader and the voice setting a new standard. A standard that doesn’t succumb to the status quo of what everybody else is doing and saying but it’s being a solution. It’s taking the lessons from the last five seasons of the show into an environment that you can thrive in. It’s almost perfectly designed for what we’ve been speaking to the last several years. I realize it’s hard.

Any successful entrepreneur has got to have the grit and got to hustle and go out and add value to the community and the world. Click To Tweet

When you look at the instinctual unconscious reaction to certain things, it doesn’t always serve you. I believe nowadays, it doesn’t serve you at all. Being cautious is important. Beyond that, I would look at this as a tremendous opportunity to serve, to add value, to use what’s inside you to make a difference in somebody else’s life. It may be a good conversation. That’s what I’ve been encouraging my team to do. There are only so many things that we can control. You can control how you show up to a conversation and being the best conversation of a person’s day, and adding value wherever possible. There’s a tremendous opportunity for that. We’re seeing corporations all around the world rally to be the solution. Everybody looks to the government to be a solution. I think that’s a terrible solution. I’m not going to get into that but I believe that you look at the entrepreneurial companies that are finding ways in which they can make a hand sanitizer and ventilators. Figuring out ways to provide medicine, make the vaccine process accelerated.

There are many examples of this. You don’t have to be an example in that regard. You can be an example in a simple way whether it’s helping your boss or company to go virtual. Being able to provide value through Zoom, podcast, webinar, sending an email or using social media. There are many different opportunities to do good and I get it, it’s hard. I don’t think the challenges are going to stop just the virus. It’s going to be even more challenging business-wise. Those are things we can’t control. We can’t control our reaction to these circumstances. I believe that if you are a longtime reader, there’s so much opportunity to do good because there is so little of it. Be that voice, be that change. I know you can do it. We transitioned our YouTube channel. If you want to subscribe, that would be amazing. If you were subscribed to the Paradigm Life channel, this is a different channel. We’re trying to create some separation there to boost our audience as well as marketing efforts for the show and Paradigm.

TWS 36 | Alternative Investments

Alternative Investments: Figure out where the need is in the marketplace.


If you can also get on social media, I’m trying to be way more active there. We’re going to be able to rally on this. A big thing about what I believe is that the asset that survives most crises is the community. It’s your community online, your business and your network. That is where strength is when it comes to being able to withstand difficult situations like this. I hope you are thriving. I hope you are out there with the mindset of serving that adding value. It’s going to pay dividends, I guarantee it. Be that voice, I love to hear from you, or on social media. Let’s keep this going. Let’s keep the optimism as high as possible and during these difficult circumstances being an asset to the community and the world. I know it’s in you. I’m trying to do my part as well and now let’s do it together. 

My guest is a longtime friend of mine and a client. We met each other right after the 2008, 2009 market crash. Everybody was dealing with some difficult circumstances. His name is Dave Zook. He rallied and has built an amazing investment business. He also has some manufacturing businesses as well. He was born an entrepreneur. He’s in diapers trying to figure stuff out but you’ll learn a little bit about his story. He grew up in an Amish country, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. He’s an incredible example of everything that we’ve been talking about the last several years about how to capitalize on opportunities to do things differently. Dave has a couple of investments that he’s done in the past and is still doing that are our alternative.

There’s been a tremendous loss in the typical investments that are out there. This is a great example of the opportunities that exist. They provide a good service but also a return on those that put forth the effort and the capital to make that service available. You can check him out at Welcome my good friend, Dave Zook. He’s an entrepreneur, a syndicator, financier. He’s raised more than $170 million in less than ten years. He is an amazing person. You are going to enjoy this episode.

I’m with my good friend, Dave. It’s hard to believe that we were ten years younger when we met each other. You haven’t aged a bit. I lost some hair. That’s pretty much the extent of it, plus I can grow some facial hair. Before, I wasn’t able to grow facial hair. How are you doing? How’s life?

I’m doing great. We’re going through some interesting times but we’re blessed. We’ve got a lot of good things going and I’m happy to be alive. This challenging time will pass. On the other side of challenges, there are always opportunities. I’m excited about what’s ahead.

We met each other during a very interesting time and it’s coincidental to what’s going on at the moment because we’re doing this the week of the big earthquake that happened in Salt Lake as well as the Coronavirus and the world being shut down. We met during a time when there was a lot of uncertainty. It was right in the wake of the financial crisis. It’s been inspiring to me to see you from a distance based on all the amazing business opportunities you’ve capitalized on. You’re already doing well with Horizon Structures and some of the stuff you were doing back home but how you’ve grown has been impressive. I’m stoked for the audience to learn from you because you have an amazing background, incredible philosophy and you walked the walk. You’ve done it. You don’t talk about it but you did it. Thanks for being a great role model for a lot of people. First, these are the questions I ask every guest that helps to have the audience gain perspective of your background, your life and what’s meaningful to you. Before you started working, and I think you’ve worked for a long time even before you’re legally able to work, who was a role model for you? Who did you look up to? Who most inspired you?

Before I started working, I’d have to say it was my dad. My dad was a very successful businessman, he still is. You talk about me working before it was legal to work, I started in our manufacturing business when I was six years old. I would paint hinges, put the little set screw in the door latches for our doors and those kinds of things. My dad allowed me in our family modular building business to spread my wings, take the helm early and make some mistakes. When I saw him investing in real estate, I decided early on that I was never going to be a real estate investor. I saw him self-manage with some single-family homes. I was like, “There’s got to be a better way to make money than that.” I started investing and working in, partnering and founding some businesses. When I got going down that road, I met my mentor, Bill Poole, who’s on my advisory team. His career is in banking, he’s founded and then sold a couple of banks. This is a Lancaster County success story. I would say in my late teens and from here forward, it’s been Bill Poole who’s been an inspiration to me.

It’s amazing how a business owner can be so successful in running his business but knows so little about tax. Click To Tweet

What superhero or icon in history do you personally most resonate with?

I would say, King David. I love reading stories. We came back from Israel and one of the reasons we went over is I got connected with this author who wrote the Lion of a War series books. It talked about King David, his mighty men, the struggles that they fought through and finally came to rule the land. You can’t read that series of books and then go back and read in the Bible first and second Samuel without being able to live it. You can imagine what it might’ve been like. Being able to go to Israel and see what those and being inside Jerusalem, the City Walls and tour the whole country.

What charitable causes do you support?

There are a couple. One is our local Christian private school where my children go to. We purchased an eleven-acre piece of property with $4.3 million value. There are buildings on it. We were able to purchase that from a family who believed in what we were doing for $1.2 million. That’s a great real estate story. A replacement cost on that building is $7-something million. That was exciting. Have you ever heard of Alliance Defending Freedom? What they do is they will defend your right of free speech and Christian values in this country. If you’re holding a prayer meeting in a college and you’re getting penalized for that, ADF will step in and defend you with their pro-life group.

We got to go down to DC with this group. My wife and I went down and there were six couples. We stayed at the Trump Plaza right down in DC right next to the White House. We had dinner with the attorneys for ADF. They were very influential in this upcoming case. We got to sit in front of the Supreme Court and watch them go through the whole session. You’ve got the nine justices that you see in the paper or on the news all the time. We got to experience sitting right in the courtroom. That was a high-profile case. People were standing in line from Monday morning until Wednesday morning. We had paid some college kids to stand in line for us and hold our spots. Wednesday morning we’d go in and get in front to get into the courtroom. We did a whole tour of the Supreme Court and the White House got private towards backend stuff. It was cool. I love that group.

I have a trust fund of my own. I know some people aren’t, there’s nothing that matters with it. It’s a personal preference. Some people will support causes and feed kids in Africa and Haiti. I was never as in those kinds of things because I am here locally. I liked to do stuff a little bit more local. I set up a fund that cares for widows. Every year, I buy assets. I put those assets in the fund and the cash flow from those assets support then I can cut a check out of the fund and support local widows. What I do is I have those widows set up on a monthly where they can get a check. It’s not like, “Your husband died, you get one check and pretty soon somebody forgets.” This is a monthly ongoing check until they either have some liquidity event or they get remarried. I’d love to do that. Hopefully, that’s a fund that my kids will be able to administer 10, 20, 50, 100 years from now.

Last question, gaining a perspective of the life of Dave. If there was one attribute that you could impress on your kids, your grandkids or the world, what would that attribute be?

I don’t care if my kids aren’t involved in a family business. I would like them to be but at the end of the day, what I care about is go out and make a difference, impact the world around you, hustle and build something to add value to people. Whether you’re doing that on your own, totally separate from what I’m doing or the family business, as any successful entrepreneur, you’ve got to have grit, you’ve got to hustle, you’ve got to go out and add value to the community and the world. I’m hopeful that I can instill that and pass that on to my kids. One thing that we’ll discuss an entrepreneur is when you have somebody that’s a drag on society and it doesn’t add value to society. I hope that I’m able to pass that on to my kids.

That’s the influence that we love most in life growing up is who we tend to emulate in our adult life. It seems like you’ve had an incredible experience with your family, but guaranteed that all your kids will hopefully share that attribute even though they have a uniqueness to them. Let’s get into an investment. You and I have had many discussions over the years and I gave you a ton of kudos with regards to what you’ve done. What I thought would be appropriate is for the audience to know about your investment philosophy. How would you briefly describe your philosophy about investment in general?

I’m an investment and tax strategist. It’s my official self-proclaimed title. We talked about 2008, we talked about when you learn the most is when you go through some pain. What happened to me was, almost a decade ago, I got in a position where I had several good businesses. I got in a position where I had to pay $500,000 in tax. I was out there hustling, doing my thing and having so much fun. It didn’t even feel like work because it was so much fun, I loved it. I remember where I was standing when I got the call saying, “In two days, you’ve got to cut a check for almost $400,000.” That year, when you consider the quarterly payments that I had already made, I spent $500,000 in tax. That was the turning point for me. It was like, “I was in pain and I went down this rabbit hole.” That’s why I ended up on the Summit at Sea that you and I first met. I showed up because Robert Kiyosaki was there. He’s was talking about, “You can make millions of dollars a year and not pay a tax legally.” I was like, “I’ve got to hunt this guy down.”

All my life I’ve been taught if you make a lot of money, you’ve got to pay a lot of tax. I’ve got my mind around tax and I went from paying a $500,000 a year to paying zero federal tax. My income tripled and quadrupled and more, and I’m paying a fraction of the amount of tax. My federal tax is somewhere between 0% and 3% every year since then. This has to do with figuring out where the need is in the marketplace. I realize that a lot of people have that same need. I’m always amazed at how successfully run a business can be and a business owner can be successful in running his business but he knows so little about tax. One of my strengths as a syndicator has been putting deals together, not only telling someone, “If you invest $100,000, you get $180,000 or $200,000 back in five years and you double your money in whatever amount of years.” It has been being very strategic, helping investors to navigate through the tax walls and trying to figure out how to be most tax-efficient in what they’re doing.

I was part of a tax team that came together where a dentist sold his practice for almost $11 million. He ended up coming out of that transaction with all but zero bases. He owned the practice for a long time. He would’ve owed $4.3 million in tax. His tax bill was $700. It was a combination of a couple of different strategies. One was a 453(a) and then I helped him invested money into some assets that had a bonus depreciation component. It was a multifaceted approach to not only putting them in a good position from an asset appreciation and a cashflow position. A lot of times your biggest return of investment in your first year when you deploy capital is tax savings. If you take somebody that’s paying 37% tax and you wait, that’s a 37% return the first year. That’s not even considering what that asset produced or the cash-on-cash return from that asset. It’s my thing. I love integrating tax strategy into an investment philosophy.

TWS 36 | Alternative Investments

Alternative Investments: A lot of times, your biggest return on investment in your first year when you deploy capital is tax savings.


I’m looking at what the future entails given the situation with government liabilities, there are only a couple of ways they can pay that. The big one is taxes. Relatively speaking, tax rates are low like what they’ve been in the past. I look at a very interesting dynamic that is going to be how tax law changes. At the same time, that thing is a monstrosity. It’s big and there are many different ways in which you can deploy money so you don’t have to pay tax. Their accountants don’t ever end up reading it or thinking that there’s anything beyond the status quo tax deduction that’s possible.

Our mutual friend, Tom Wheelwright, taught me that if you want to change your tax, you’ve got to change your facts. That was a slap in the face. That was the jolt like, “What are you talking about? It’s up to me?” I thought this is tax law and legislation. If you make a lot of money, you’ve got to pay a lot of tax. When I discovered that it was up to me and that I was in control of my destiny, that’s when everything changed. The thing to remember too is it’s not being super smart, trying to outwit the government and trying to evade taxes and all that. It’s figuring out what the government wants you to do and then going and doing it. There’s a whole bunch of ways that the government comes to you and says, “Here’s a list of things you can do. Here’s what we want you to do.”

If you invest in those things and do business in the way they want you to do business, they’ll pay you to do it. They’ll give you those tax rates. That’s important to remember. You’re doing what the government wants you to do. If you’re going out there and adding a ton of value to people and you’re giving people jobs, you’re building stuff and creating stuff, they’ll pay big dollars to go out there and do it. If you’re out there with a W-2 job, working for the man, putting your time in and you’re not creating those things that the government wants you to do, all they’re doing is giving you a fine for not taking their suggestions on what they want you to do. You’re not listening to them. That’s your penalty. Your tax bill is a penalty for not doing what the government wants you to do.

That’s a very blunt way of saying it but true. Hopefully, people realize especially the newer investors that in the end, it’s not about the return you get. It’s about getting your money back first off but then also getting your money back after tax. There are tons of ways in which you can make investments and structure deals in which the tax is low if anything. One thing I wanted to get into and this is what you’re doing as a big part of your businesses, which is syndicating. Syndicating means you go out and you have investors all get their money together and make a big investment. What I was curious about is you have some very unique types of investments. Before we get into those, what’s your philosophy about when you decide to move forward on one of these investments that you syndicate? What are the necessary components or criteria that have to be in place for you to move forward? Would you speak to that? 

I’ll back up that I never started as an investor thinking that I was going to be a syndicator. I was out there doing what I wanted to do for myself. When I saw how it was working and realized that, “What I’m doing for myself, there’s a lot of need out there for other people.” It came in the opportunity when I started running out of my cash, I bought a couple of hundred units of my own, and a couple of hundred apartment units of my own and I ran out of cash. At that point, I had a great team, we had a lot of opportunities back then in the apartment space. I put a deal together and raised $850,000, went out, raised and funded an apartment building. That’s the start of my syndication career. I wasn’t even meant to go out and syndicate. For me, it’s not as much about the deal on the front side as it is about the team.

If I see a team out there, I have some rules around mind busting. Number one, it’s got to cashflow. Number two, it’s got to have some tax. The strategy to it or tax incentive. When we got late into the apartment, what I felt was getting late into the multifamily apartment investing arena. We started getting closer to what I felt was closer to the top than the bottom or even midway. I started looking for an asset class that does well in a downturn or a recession. I specifically wanted self-storage but I didn’t have a team at that time. It’s when you start thinking about things then they appear. I kept hearing about this group. A number of my investors in my network had invested in this group over the last decade. I couldn’t say enough good things about this group and that’s when my ears perk up and I start thinking, “I like this thing.” If they don’t pass that test, they don’t even make it in the door.

It’s about the team first and then if it fits my rules for cashflow and some tax advantage and those three things combined, I start going down the path about, “Let’s do due diligence. I liked the asset class and the timing that we’re in. Let’s look at the team.” I went down this path down this team, I brought him up to my neighborhood. I’ve got a good friend who was the chairman of the board of the National Self Storage Association. I brought them up to his office and he interrogated them and put his stamp of approval. They went through this whole process. I like to do a whole bunch of deals with that team. I shared with you how we wrapped up a $44 million fund. There is eleven self-storage of assets in the fund. Once I have the team nailed down, then we’d go out and do a bunch of stuff together.

Most people can get their minds around what self-storage means and put together why it’s an asset that does well during a recessionary time. To my knowledge, I haven’t come across anybody else that’s done it as big as you have. It’s ATMs. Talk to a very interesting asset class and what most would assume is a dying industry. Talk about the ATM investments that you’ve made over the last several years.

One thing to remember or think about when you were thinking of ATM operators, there are two kinds of operators. It’s a mom and pop operator and there are the institutional operators. Mom and pop operators run around. They can serve us between 150 to 200 ATMs themselves in a 50-mile radius. You can make a lot of money in that situation. There are institutional players. There’s the Cardtronics of the world, publicly traded companies, $1.5 billion revenue companies. To my knowledge, there has never been anybody in between. Let’s say you have an investor who wants to get into this space passively, but you can’t do it on the mom and pop operator side. If you have a relationship with an operator and you want to loan him $50,000 or $100,000. I’m not going to say there’s not an opportunity like that but you’ve got to know somebody and it’s not widely available. The other option is to go trade a publicly-traded stock.

What we do is we play in the institutional space. We take down large portfolios of institutional-grade locations, $5 million, $10 million, and $15 million portfolios at a time. To give you an example of what an institutional-grade location. We own all of the McDonalds in all five boroughs of New York City. That’s considered an institutional-grade location. We’ve been able to take those portfolios. We’ll put a big $5 million, $10 million, $15 million portfolios under contract, and then we’ll bring it back to Main Street and we’ll break it up in bite-size pieces. $104,000 chunks and investors come in and make $104,000 investment. They get seven ATMs which then get rolled over into our fund and we manage it for them. That’s the business model. We’ve systemized it and figured out ways that we, as a fund, can bear the brunt to the volatility. We have a committed return like you, as the investor, have seven machines, we’re going to commit to you that you’re going to make 3,373 transactions per month. Your portion of the surcharge revenue is $0.63. Surcharge revenue can be anywhere between $2 and $3. You, as an investor, you get $0.63. That’s a 24.5% cash-on-cash return, 18.6% IRR.

If you invest in the things and do business in the way the government wants you to do, they'll give you those tax breaks. Click To Tweet

It’s a good way for an investor to get into an ATM play passively while getting into some of the best institutional-grade locations you can find anywhere. It’s been a good business model. We’re one of the top five operators in the country and we’ve been doing it for a long time. It’s my most repeat investor asset class that I have. More people come back for more ATM. They love this space and I love this space. I invest in ATM four years before I brought it to my investor group.

Given the circumstances, during a crisis when people value cash than ever before, they would rather have cash than eat.

This is one of the things that brings me great joy when I think about what Wall Street investors went through. I think how much money we moved out of Wall Street into a safe, solid asset. This is for guys that think that ATMs are going by the wayside and people aren’t using them, year-over-year and the fund was up to 2% but in the past few weeks, we’ve also seen nice spike inactivity. While Wall Street investors are losing their shirts, we’re like, “The ATM demand and ATM use is way up.” Here’s what I would like to remind people that think that ATM use and cash use are going away. Most people who can afford to invest in an ATM, that’s exactly right. You and I converted to plastic a long time ago. There was a whole subset of the demographic in this country who have not.

The people in this country who are regular users of ATMs, they’re the fastest-growing demographic in the country. It’s the lower-income people. These people use ATM for their banks. Years ago, at the end of the workweek, you used to get a check. You don’t get a check anymore, you get an ACH and it gets taken right to your account. They walk out of their C-Class apartment building, go down to the corner deli and get their $20, $100, $50 out of the machine. Times change but it’s been an asset class that has done well. There’s more cash in circulation than ever before. That demographic of people who use ATMs are growing at a faster pace than any other demographic in the country.

David, this has been awesome. Thank you for taking the time. How can readers connect, learn more about your philosophy, opportunities and follow and learn from you?

Our website is To send us an email, send it to or Patrick for your audience, there’s an easy to read which is an eight or nine-page report on ATM investing and gives you the whole rundown of what that’s all about.

Thank you for sharing that. One last thing before we sign off. I look at how crazy this set of circumstances we’re living in and there are many different reasons to be pessimistic. What are the top couple of reasons why you’re optimistic? There are always reasons to be pessimistic. It’s easier for us to find those because we’re creatures that are designed to survive. We’re always looking out for something wanting to attack us. What are you optimistic about during a time when 99% of people are running for the hills or hiding in their basement?

The big opportunities come in times like this like 2008, 2009 and they don’t come around real often. I feel there may be some pressure coming in the multifamily space. If people don’t have jobs, people aren’t getting paid, how are they going to pay their rent? That could be a challenge. What’s on the flip side of the challenge? It doesn’t matter. If there’s a challenge, there’s an opportunity. What happened to interest rates? What if it’s sitting on a $5 million mortgage and you’re paying 5.5% interest? Now you can refinance into a 3% mortgage. There you have it. One big challenge and opportunity. These kinds of times are going to create once in a decade of opportunities. I’m always looking to exploit even in our manufacturing business, we were looking for times of weakness and ways we can take advantage of what’s going on in the marketplace.

TWS 36 | Alternative Investments

Alternative Investments: Regular users of ATMs are the fastest-growing demographic in the country.


In the commodity space, there are ups and downs and there are times where you’ll get an opportunity to buy something less than the cost to produce that commodity. Every ten years or so, we get an opportunity to buy roof sheeting at below cost to produce it. We built a warehouse to store OSB roof sheeting. We’ve got 50 tractor-trailer loads of the stuff and below the cost to produce your stuff. It’s almost double already a year later, not quite double what we paid for this stuff. The price had to go up from $550 to $675 a sheet to pay for the whole building that we built. We’ve got that building for the next 50 years. Those opportunities come along when there’s stuff like this going on in the marketplace. If you’re ready, you’re not scared, and you’re confident, you got cash, you can jump on opportunities like that.

Your tax bill is a penalty for not doing what the government wants you to do. Click To Tweet

The saying I keep repeating over and over to my kids, my wife and the team is, “When there is a challenge, there is an opportunity and solution.” You can complain about the challenge or you can be the solution. That’s where I look at. A lot of stuff is unwinding but it’s one of the greatest times in history for human beings to step up, use their ingenuity, make a difference and make some money too. Dave, thanks again. I appreciate it. Thank you for sharing that. For those reading, head over to to connect with Dave as well as download that free report. We’ll see you next time.

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About Dave Zook

TWS 36 | Alternative Investments

Dave Zook is Founder & CEO of The Real Asset Investor. He is a successful business owner and an experienced real estate investor active in multifamily apartments, self-storage, and ATM space.

Dave has acquired more than $100 million worth of real estate since 2010. At the time of this writing, he and his investors own approximately 3000 Multi-family Apartment units.

Together with his business partner, Dave is a renowned and trusted professional resource in the Automatic Teller Machine (ATM) investment market where they have deployed more than $90 million of investor capital and they are heavily invested personally in the ATM space.

As a #1 Best Selling Author and popular guest speaker Dave has shared his knowledge at the International Business conference, The Jason Hartman Real Estate Mastermind, The Wealth Formula Podcast and the Real Estate Guys Radio show, the #1 most downloaded podcast on Real Estate Investing on iTunes.


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