Patrick Donohoe

Brock Pierce: Bringing A Message Of Unity To A Divided Nation

TWS 62 | Independent Presidential Candidate


With everything that is happening, 2020 is a year where anyone thinking about running for president would think twice. Not Brock Pierce, an independent candidate for the US presidency. A young, wealthy entrepreneur in the blockchain and cryptocurrency world, Brock stands in stark contrast to the older, more entrenched players of the established duopoly. Bringing forth a message of unity and systematic change, he directly challenges the two-party system that he believes has held America back from truly progressing as one nation. A systems genius who has made a difference in the technology world, Brock believes that America needs to upgrade its very operating system. Listen in as he introduces his platform on the show with Patrick Donohoe.

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Brock Pierce: Bringing A Message Of Unity To A Divided Nation

Thank you for tuning in to a special episode of the show. I got to sit down with Brock Pierce. He is one of the candidates for the US presidency. There are more than two candidates. Brock can be found at It has a great explanation of his political platform as well as his social media channel links. Brock and I met when he was here in Salt Lake City, which is where I’m located. He was kicking off his bus tour amongst other things, and it was a great conversation. You are going to enjoy the interview.

You may have heard his name before. He was a child movie star. He was in The Mighty Ducks. He is also known in the blockchain and cryptocurrency world. He is the Director of the Bitcoin Foundation as well as the Cofounder of Tether. 2020 is a year where anyone thinking about running for president would think twice. It seems like everything that has happened has been weaponized politically and the two parties are shooting at one another.

The American public is in the cross crossfire. At the same time, now is potentially a time where we can wake up to a different message and start to question our assumptions. Maybe Brock is the guy to do that. He’s young, wealthy, and he has made a difference in the technology world. I believe he has a good message. Thank you for your support. I appreciate it.

Brock, it’s awesome to be with you. Thanks for taking the time. I know you are a busy man.

My hands are full. Running for president is more than a full-time job and I had a few jobs before this.

Did you realize that going in or are a lot of things surprised you since you made that decision?

Love is the answer. Unity is the answer. Click To Tweet

I understood that running for the presidency is like stepping into the ring of fire. You are calling in the magnifying glass to have every decision you’ve ever made in your life scrutinized and demanding in terms of meetings day and night interviews, answering questions. That’s what you were signing up for is not sleeping much and working on it.

2020 is like a ring of fire on the sun as opposed to other elections.

This one is especially divisive, but it feels like just as a trend, as a nation where we’ve been moving in this. It doesn’t feel like it started. This feels like it’s been accelerating or amplifying throughout the course of my life, but we don’t feel like the United States right now. It feels like the divided states, whether that be politically, economically and racially divided. Simultaneously facing existential threats, environmentally, technologically, conflict and challenges with China. There’s a lot going on.

This is trying times, the vitriol is off the charts and you stepped into the ring. Why don’t you tell the audience about what compelled you to run? What message do you want to communicate to not just the United States, but to the world?

I can summarize why I’m running for office in one word, love. At a time where it feels like our choices are fear and hate. I love this country. I love the American people. I believe in us. I have faith in us and love is the answer. Unity is the answer. We have to find a path forward together. We have to have compassion. We have to be patient. We have to have the understanding and right now, we’re in this path of this two-party system that either comes into collision or full polarization. We are polarized as a nation that we have to find a way back to unity. Hopefully by putting love on the table as one of the choices, we can figure this out together.

You probably have a different perspective now but it’s interesting to try to observe 2020 and you use the word divisive. It’s grown. That chasm is big now. It’s not necessarily people being for something and for something else. It’s being against. There’s a lot of against and not much for. It’s interesting to hear what you are for which I do believe is something that can bring people together. What’s your experience on the road been? What it’s been like? I know you’re about to kick off your bus tour around the country, starting in Salt Lake City, our home base. With the people you’ve interacted with and the pulse that you’re getting, where do you start to have that conversation?

TWS 62 | Independent Presidential Candidate

Independent Presidential Candidate: The political system is rigged to protect and preserve the duopoly, red and blue, and anyone that’s trying to present an alternative is essentially shut down.


I’m not running against anyone. I’m running for and with everyone. We are in Salt Lake City. I’m in Utah. The experience has been interesting. The message that we share or the message that I communicate seems to resonate with people that are for this and everything in between. The issue for us is whether or not the message resonates and people are into it and agree with it. Our issue has been in reach and trying to get the message out. The political system is rigged. It’s rigged to protect and preserve the duopoly, red and blue, and anyone that’s trying to present an alternative is essentially shut down and preventing for me to being on ballots and things.

It’s a wild ride and I can explain it from the inside. There’s that challenge the media similarly doesn’t want to present anything that isn’t the two-party system, the debate stages the same way. The debates historically were run by the League of Women Voters, but after the League of Women Voters allowed Ross Perot to participate in the debates, they stripped that privilege away and handed it to one Republican and one Democrat to ensure that no third party would ever make it onto that stage again.

Talk about the different demographics that exist. The Millennial generation is now coming to its own professionally graduating college and they don’t necessarily have the decades behind them that have influenced taking this side or that side even though there’s compelling influence to take aside. What role does the youth have now? How do you feel you can better connect to them than the presidents that represent those two dominant parties?

That’s where our message resonates most. We pull best in the sub-40-year-old category. Whatever happens in this election, this is the beginning. We are laying the groundwork for the future as well as doing everything that must be done for this election cycle. What I would tell the youth is they are the sleeping giant in this country. When the youth wake up and realize how much their voice matters and counts, we can change everything. Forty-three percent of eligible voters in this country are not voting. Over 30% of registered voters are independents, meaning that we are already the majority.

The Republican and Democratic parties are the minority, but we’ve been tricked. We’ve been confused. We’ve been living in the solution that our only choices are red and blue. The question is when will we wake up and bring the necessary change? As Albert Einstein is often quoted as saying, “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result.” When are we going to do something different?

What have you seen with the youth that is giving you hope? There is influence and the influence starts within the school system where kids are taught facts, not necessarily how to debate them or how to critically think. They have also been influenced and it depends on the state but it has caused them to start taking sides. As they listen to social media, which is a huge influence in their life, they can take sides as well. What’s your advice or what’s your message to them that allows them to maybe pierce the veil of having to choose sides and be able to step outside of that and understand facts, truth and whatever the opposite of rhetoric is?

The youth are the country’s sleeping giant. When they realize how much their voice matters, they can change everything. Click To Tweet

Unfortunately, we have to unlearn so much of what we’ve learned because history or his story was written by the victors and it’s not always accurate. A lot of those facts are not necessarily facts. What I would encourage everyone regardless of your age is to vote your conscience to trust and follow your heart. Do what you feel is right for you. I would avoid making compromises because compromises around our system of governance, that thing that governs over us does not lead to good things. We hold our family, friends and co-workers to a certain bar of truth. If people lie to you, you stop hanging out with them. If people cheat, you normally stop working with them. For some reason, they don’t have to abide by those same principles and rules that we apply to everyone else. We have to start holding our government accountable to our values and principles and stop compromising.

One more question that I love to pivot a little bit into your professional area of expertise is it seems like people are forced to take sides and there’s a leverage of group psychology that if you’re not with us, you’re against us. What do you say to that especially when it comes to youth? Youth in large part is still gaining a lot of self-esteem and self-awareness based on the groups that they associated with. Not being a part of the group often is highly influential which has them make decisions about political issues as opposed to forming their own opinions and perspective. What message do you have for those that may sit on the line and may not like the side of the cards that they’re dealt, but nonetheless, their group, their influence, their family in some cases, their community, is going to outcast them if they even don’t take their side?

In the long run in life, you eventually have to free your mind and break free from the control and manipulation of others to hear what people have to say to process that information but to ultimately think for yourself. Don’t let others tell you what to do. Don’t let others tell you what to think. Make sure in life that you do you whether you realize it now or later in life, that is when success begins for you. You’re taught in school to conform but what you learn as you become successful in life is that conforming is what prevents success. You have to step out of conformity and become the individual. The independent being that you are and to make your own decisions.

Some will learn that sooner, some will learn that later, but the sooner you learn that normally the better off your life will be. As you get better, as your life improves so will the world around us. You only have the power to change yourself, but through the bettering of yourself, you have the ability to inspire and influence others to better themselves. Be the change you wish to see in the world. Try not to succumb to the fear and hate, it’s me against you. We’re all one. We’re ultimately in this together and to have compassion and to be patient and try to understand where someone’s coming from and why they have a different perspective. To agree to disagree but understand we’re not against each other.

It seems like this might be a pivot, but I think there is some relevance to your area of specialty as a professional, which is a blockchain. I know you’ve had an extensive background there and you can look to the blockchain. Sometimes, I like to look at it as an arbiter of truth to understand what is fair. It’s not just in the political arena. It’s in the financial arena. It’s everywhere where you have interested parties that stack the deck in their favor that may give some truth and hide maybe what would make a person side the other way.

Blockchain in a sense has the future of being able to help us to know what is right and have more facts objectively as opposed to subjectively. With the perspective you have with that background, how do you view whether it’s our political system, whether it’s our monetary system? How do you view it differently than most? What type of message do you want to communicate as far as how that technology could ultimately improve things?

TWS 62 | Independent Presidential Candidate

Independent Presidential Candidate: If we want to upgrade the operating system of the United States of America, we need to take a step back and take a look at what are we incentivizing.


Antitrust and trust with truth is an important thing. Blockchain should enable a world that is more trustworthy. Absolute power corrupts absolutely which is why we created antitrust laws. Our government recognized systems of two. Most of our world is run by monopolies and those things that we know over time, we can’t trust. The blockchain hopefully brings and restores trust to systems by creating transparency, accountability and all the wonderful things that hopefully create a more inclusive, and fair world.

A lot of it’s relevant to what’s going on. For example, one of the things that I started was the digital dollar, tokenizing and creating this concept of a stable coin and that system right now, our UST is doing $10 trillion a year in transactional volume. Governments around the world have recognized that technology can be used to enhance their currency at a central banking level. The Chinese government has created the Chinese digital one-off of that framework.

This stuff is becoming relevant which is another reason why we need visionary leadership in our government that understands technology. We’ve seen how social networking has impacted our democracy. If you haven’t seen The Social Dilemma on Netflix, it’s a movie worth watching. Brittany Kaiser is my campaign manager. Also, check out The Great Hack. These are things that are relevant right now as we are in the final month or so of the election. Technology matters, which is why we need leadership with foresight that understands how to navigate the road ahead because technology is moral.

Technology is a tool. How we use it is what matters. With artificial intelligence coming online, robotics, automation, the landscape of work, the world around us is changing and we need leadership with our fingers on the pulse. When you watch our tech giants testified before our government, it’s embarrassing to see the quality of questions that are being asked. Our government does not understand how the world is changing right now and it’s accelerating. It’s changing rapidly that the decisions we make over the course of the next decade will not only determine the fate of our nation but the fate of humanity.

The world has progressed quickly. As you get up in age and you come to a certain perspective and paradigm of the world, it’s difficult sometimes to accept new information and hold new information. You look at the leadership, not just in our government, but leadership in business and religious leadership. They’re all in that same demographic. Things are happening quickly and they’re not able to pivot and make decisions that would otherwise benefit people simply for the lack of knowledge.

Blockchain is one of those things where it’s been a buzzword but it’s gaining more popularity. Those two documentaries, I could not emphasize. I’ve talked about them before on the show, but sometimes information goes in one ear and out the other. Hopefully, this year 2020 specifically can demonstrate how social media, how rhetoric has been weaponized and how much it is negatively impacted things including everybody’s lives. Hopefully, there’s an awakening of sorts.

Conformity is what prevents success. Click To Tweet

Sometimes in order to accept another truth, there has to be some pain associated with it. Maybe a punch in the face to have a wakeup call so that you’re open to new ideas and not just sticking to what you’ve always known. Brock, thank you for sharing this. It’s a great message. It’s an inspiring message. I hope that more people will follow you and more people open their eyes because of you. Are there any last words you’d like to say or anything that we haven’t talked about that you think would be important to attend with?

First of all, if you want to learn more, join us at I’ll close also on some trick game-changing ideas because I’m a systems designer. I understand the power of incentivization. If we want to upgrade the operating system of the United States of America, we need to take a step back and take a look at what are we incentivizing. What is our goal? What is our vision? What is the destination for this nation? What are we aiming for?

Historically, we measured our success by growth. The problem with growth is it assumes infinite resources which we’ve known for some time we don’t have. Therefore, lots of conflicts are occurring between us as we’re trying to take from each other’s pockets. The other problem with growth is it doesn’t differentiate between positive and negative. Cancer creates growth. Locking people in prison creates growth.

Forest fires and hurricanes create growth. What kind of growth do we want to incentivize and the pursuit of happiness? What if we started to measure our success as a nation by life expectancy? What if we started to measure our success by freedom? We’re supposed to be the land of the free. What if we started to measure our success by happiness? I’d like us to start thinking about how do we create America 2.0. How do we shift the gears to bring us to a place in the year 2030 and the America that we all want to live in, a redefined America?

One where the American dream is flourishing. One where we are the light of the world and the bastion of hope that we were always intended to be. One where we are unified, united, aligned and figuring out how to support each other and love thy neighbor’s instead of being in conflict. All these things are possible if we set our minds to it. The last thing, if you are in Wyoming or interested, the Independent National Convention is going to be October 23rd and 24th of 2020 in Cheyenne bringing together the third parties and having our debates and all of those things. I would encourage you to join us online or in-person. If you’re along the campaign trail, I’m in Utah and next up is Idaho, then Wyoming, then Colorado. Send us a tweet. Hit us on Instagram. We’re interested in connecting with every one of you. Thank you for tuning in. I appreciate you having me on the show. God bless.

Thank you, Brock. We wish you the best. Let’s connect again. If you ever need anything, let me know. I think your message is inspiring. I believe this is the year of any, where it’s a wakeup call so that people will listen and take some action. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for your time and best of luck.

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About Brock Pierce

TWS 62 | Independent Presidential CandidateBrock Pierce is an entrepreneur and venture capitalist with an extensive track record of founding, advising and investing in disruptive businesses. He’s credited with pioneering the market for digital currency and has raised more than $5B for companies he has founded. Pierce is the Chairman of the Bitcoin Foundation and co-founder of EOS Alliance,, Blockchain Capital, Tether, and Mastercoin (first ICO).

In 2017, Pierce co-founded which sold over $4B tokens in the EOS crowdsale, making it the largest ever. He also co-founded Blockchain Capital in 2013, making it the first sector-focused venture fund that invests solely in Blockchain technology companies. Pierce led the firm through the first ICO of a venture fund, which created the first security token. Blockchain Capital has made more than 100 investments in the sector across its four funds. The firm was named the most active FinTech Venture Fund by Pitchbook. In 2014, Brock founded Tether, the first stablecoin and asset-backed token.

Pierce is an early investor in Bitcoin and one of the largest investors in the Ethereum crowdsale. He is the founder of IMI Exchange, the world’s leading digital currency marketplace for games, with annual sales exceeding $1B and investors such as Goldman Sachs, which was sold in 2016 for more than $100M. Pierce founded ZAM, one of the world’s largest media properties for gamers, which was acquired by Tencent in 2012. He founded IGE, the pioneer of digital currency in online games, achieving revenues exceeding $100 million in 2006 and sold in 2007. Pierce is also a co-founder of D10e, GoCoin, Blade Payments, Five Delta (sold NASDAQ: SRAX), Xfire 2.0, Playsino, Evertune, GamesTV, and DEN. He also advises Airswap, Bancor, BitGo, BitGuild, BlockV, Bloq, DNA, Element Group, Metronome, Shyft, and tZERO.

Pierce is a sought-after speaker who has spoken about the power of blockchain technology and decentralization at global events and institutions.

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Wealth Mindset Exercise: Visualizing The Ideal Life

TWS 61 | Wealth Mindset


The starting point of wealth is in your mindset, not in your assets. Having grown accustomed to certain beliefs about money and wealth, we have in us a self-imposed threshold of what we allow ourselves to wish for as our ideal lifestyle. Have you ever asked yourself what kind of life you really want? What does financial independence mean to you? How much money it will take to get you there? How far beyond that point are you willing to go? In this episode, Patrick Donohoe invites you to participate in this mental exercise that pushes your imagination to its limits and takes you to a world of possibilities. Do you want to know what wealth really means to you? Join in on this exercise now!

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Wealth Mindset Exercise: Visualizing The Ideal Life

Thank you for tuning in for this episode. I’m glad you’re here. I have some things to talk about that hopefully will be a good segue from the last two episodes before this. I hope you took advantage of purchasing that book series called The Tuttle Twins. If you don’t know what I’m talking about, head over to You will learn about the two episodes specifically with my good friend, Connor Boyack of the Libertas Institute as well as the author of those fine books. For this episode, I’m going to pick up on that theme. The reason why I wanted to have Connor on is because there is a lot of angst based on some cultural divide or maybe a socioeconomic divide that calls for justice and more equality.

I wanted to have him on because sometimes given the fact that we are not taught to critically think and debate ideas and ultimately encouraged influence to choose a side. We don’t get to think through concepts and issues. I put myself in that category forming opinions based on certain things and not being open to other perspectives. I’m not going to get into that now but I look at wealth inequality. This is something I do for a living. It’s talk about money, investing and strategy. I feel that it’s my stewardship to keep talking about this because it’s prevalent in the news. That’s why I wanted to talk to Connor and get his perspective on things from a libertarian standpoint, but also talk about where we are with understanding ourselves, our beliefs about money, and then figuring out what to do about that.

That’s where I went to children because oftentimes, we’re masochistic in a sense. We have pain and anxiety tolerance, and it’s high. When it comes to our kids though, that’s where we start to draw lines. What we realized is that both our conscious and unconscious behavior about money is teaching and influencing them. Let’s get into it. Going off of Aristotle’s quote about excellence, “It’s not a onetime act, it’s a habit.” It’s having a certain mindset which I believe is necessary. A dollar amount in the bank will not create this amount of cashflow, and the number of doors or property and the amount of business interests will not replace this. I believe that this mindset and this perspective is irrespective of the amount of money and wealth that you have. That’s the starting place. From there, you have a strategy. There’s a formula that I use which state story and strategy. The most important thing is the state, which I believe comes from the belief system that you have about money and wealth, and what’s possible for you. That’s going to be the biggest barrier to you achieving what you want.

TWS 61 | Wealth Mindset

Wealth Mindset: We have an idea of what an ideal life would look like, but we never really explore it.


I’m going to take you through some exercises. I hope that this expands your view and your belief in what’s possible for you. I’m going to do some follow-up episodes getting into a specific calculator and formula that you can use to start having some breakthroughs, some realizations, and setting some goals potentially. You’re going to get a kick out of it.

The Ideal Life

First, wherever you are, I want you to think about on a scale of 1 to 10, how are things going financially? How’s your financial life? You can put one being that you’re on the verge of bankruptcy and all you do is worry about money and it’s affecting your relationships with yourself. It’s affecting your health and your work, then ten being financially free where you can do what you want, when you want, with whom you want. You feel completely free. I want you to rank yourself and understand that that ranking is a gut feeling.

We understand where we’re at, whether or not we’re able to look at our financial statement or our bank account. We have an idea of where we’re at naturally. I want you to first be aware of that. This next part is going to be interesting. Sometimes we have this what I call the infinite horizon which is this light at the end of the tunnel or this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It’s this thing in the distance that never seems to get any closer. Sometimes we have an idea of what an ideal life would look like but we’d never explore it. There’s a psychological way in which you can be open to what you want. That’s what I want you to start thinking about. What does life look like at a ten? What does life look like on your terms. If you were to be financially free, what would have to happen?

This is where I’m going to stretch the perspective. I did an event with good friends of mine who are also in the financial services space. I love doing events with them. We meet every week, we brainstorm, and we come up with cool ideas. We do an event for financial advisors. We had a guest speaker who I consider a good friend. He’s also a colleague. He’s been a mentor of mine. He has inspired me in many different ways. His name is Garrett. He did an exercise on this event that I was impressed by. I also have thought about a bit, but never connected its relevance to the topic we’re on until my preparation for this. I feel that the purpose of this exercise is to connect with who you are, what you want, and then what growth means. I want you to take another moment. You’ve ranked yourself on a scale of 1 to 10 and get a gauge of where you’re at and now understanding what a ten looks like. What I’m about to do expands beyond a ten, which allows you even more room to understand what you want.

Excellence is not a one-time act. It’s a habit. Click To Tweet

First, I want you to imagine that starting next month, whatever month it is next, you receive an additional $1,000 of income on top of everything that you’re making. What would you do with that? Would you save it, pay down debt, go out to dinner at your favorite restaurant a couple of times or take out? What about an additional $5,000 a month? If $5,000 additional money came in every single month on top of what you’re already making, what would you do? Would you maybe look at moving where you live? Would you look at putting money away for college education, savings or build up a reserve? Now, $10,000 a month. If every single month on top of what you’re currently making, what would you do with an additional $10,000 a month? Would you get a new car, upgrade your wardrobe, pay off debt, give money to your kids, go on vacation? What would you do with an additional $10,000 extra per month?

What about $30,000 extra on top of what you are already making? What would you do with that money? Would you get your dream home, quit your job, start your own business or go to an event? Would you move your parents to a nicer place? Would you put money away or save it? If you had an extra $50,000 a month coming in every single month on top of what you’re already making, what would you do? Go to $100,000 a month more than what you’re making. Now $250,000. Every single month, money came in. What would you do? Every single month, $500,000 showed up in your bank account more than what you’re making. What would change? How would you feel? What would you do? What would you not do? $750,000 every single month on top of what you’re making right now, and then finally $1 million extra every single month.

I want you to think about those dollar amounts, the exercise, and I want you to connect with something. Number one, at what dollar amount did you not know what you were going to do? I also want you to connect to at what dollar amount did you start thinking about giving money to others where your lifestyle was complete? You are living in the home of your dreams. You had no debt. You were making investments. The worry factor of money was no longer there. Maybe a new worry set in which is, “With all this money, what am I going to do?”

Breaking The Threshold

The reason why I wanted to do that exercise is because I do believe that there is a threshold to what our ideal lifestyle looks like, what the ideal life is, and what it takes financially to achieve that. I don’t think we ever had this conversation with ourselves or anybody else, whether you feel guilty or you feel that you shouldn’t have that type of lifestyle and that others are more deserving of that. I don’t know. These are all belief systems. I want you to start connecting to that and opening up your mind as far as where you’re at, the money that you’re making, the thresholds, the glass ceilings that do exist. They exist for all of us. I want you to start positioning yourself now on what I consider a hierarchy. I talk about Maslow’s hierarchy of needs every single episode. It’s something that’s important to me because it helps me categorize, formulate, and structure ideas and lots of different information in a simple way.

TWS 61 | Wealth Mindset

Wealth Mindset: There is a threshold to what our ideal lifestyle looks like and what it takes financially to achieve that.


When I look at that exercise, it’s to merely open you up to possibilities. Opening your mind to what would you do and what do you want. Subsequently, it breaks beyond the threshold of you and it gets to others. What would you contribute? Who would you help? What experiences would you create for those that may not have the blessings, the opportunities, and the drive that you have? This is where the hierarchy of needs, that physiological, that carnal need like your food, shelter, clothing and those survival instincts from a financial standpoint. This is the category where people are in debt like credit card debt and high-interest debt. They’re living paycheck to paycheck. It’s a survival mentality. They don’t have any savings. They’re struggling to get by. They spend every single dollar that’s in their bank account and go into overdraft every month. This is like that physiological section where you’re surviving.

Graduating from that as you start to resolve those things, you start to pay off debt and eventually get out of debt. This is the safety tier-two of the hierarchy of needs. Maybe you have a good credit score now and you’re responsible. You purchase a home instead of renting. You start saving a double-digit percentage of your income starting at 10%. You have liquid reserves, 6 months, 12 months. You’re essentially creating that safety net for yourself. I look at the next stage, that tier-three as a relationship. It’s where you’re incorporating the building blocks of good, financial wherewithal starting with having a budget, saving money, establishing a will and trust, potentially a college fund for your kids or an education fund. You maybe start investing. You started looking into ways in which you can make more money.

The next rung is self-esteem. Self-esteem is where I would put maximizing your income. Realizing that one of the best investments is in yourself and taking some money in getting a course or getting a certification or learning something new. It allows you to be more valuable to others and subsequently earn more money. This is a stage where you have a spending plan as opposed to a budget. The spending plan is different. Spending plan is, “What lifestyle do I want and how can I create a spending plan where I can have that lifestyle and enjoy life at a different level?” Spending plans and budgets are different. This I believe is when you start to identify with that ideal lifestyle. Maybe some of those thoughts came to mind when you were doing this exercise a moment ago. At what dollar amount would you be able to do what you want to do, live where you want to live, and have fun with the people that you love?

My parents live on Cape Cod in Massachusetts and usually every year we go and visit them. A few years ago, I got to take my dad on this little plane and do a tour over Cape Cod. He had never seen Cape Cod that way, but it was awesome to have that experience with him. I prepaid for a great white shark excursion on Cape Cod to have one of those other experiences with my brother, my nephews, my dad, my uncle and my son. Unfortunately, there’s a wind storm and it knocked out power to the little airport. We did usually was the spotter plane for this boat that went around. Someone was probably looking out for us and that wind soar came in that we did not do the shark tour. That’s on the bucket list. I have some big bucket list items to contribute to the experiences of others.

Your belief systems are what stand in your way to achieving what you want. Click To Tweet

Those are examples of what I’m talking about. This is where you start to put together what you dream about and what you want to provide as experiences for yourself, your family, and then subsequently people that you love, that may not be able to have the same experiences as you. Finally, you get to self-actualization. It’s this final rung, which you’re growing for different reasons. You’re maximizing your income for different reasons. You’re investing for different reasons. It’s now outside of yourself. You’re growing to contribute to others. It’s not just live a lifestyle that you love, but you do the things that you’re passionate about. You support causes, you create memories and you establish your legacy. Also, self-actualization like career on your terms. You’re working to live. You’re investing, you’re managing to live because you have connected to that lifestyle and not the other way around.

I hope that you guys are connecting with this. The reason why I want to do it is to start getting you to understand that there is a position you’re at financially. That position that hopefully expanded you into $1 million a month. What would I do with $1 million a month? Also, it connected you to where you’re at in the pecking order of things or the hierarchy of things. Are you in desperation? Probably not because you’re reading this blog. Are you in safety, in a relationship, or in self-esteem? Are you in self-actualization? That would be amazing. I want you to connect to where you are and then over the course of the next few episodes, we’re going to speak about what life looks like at those stages above and beyond where you’re at now, and then subsequently, ways in which you can quantify that. You can establish some potential milestones on the way to whatever that ideal lifestyle is for you.

Make sure you stick with me because I’m doing this for a number of reasons. Number one, I’m trying to connect a lot of the previous episodes to actionable things that you can do. Also, I’m hoping you realize by now that the majority of this is psychological. What you believe about money is what you believe about yourself. It’s what you believe you’re worthy to achieve. I look at many different influences that have caused us to think about money and most of them I would say are limiting. Connecting with those and realizing those are simply beliefs. You didn’t necessarily consciously create those barriers for yourself. That will open you up to the importance of strategy and how do you implement strategy, because changes need to be made in order to get to the next level. If the cause is not worthy of the efforts to establish goals, change habits, then you’re not going to do it. It may be an act here and there but as Aristotle said, “It’s not going to be a habit.”

TWS 61 | Wealth Mindset

Wealth Mindset: It’s all about what you believe about money, what you believe about yourself, what you believe you’re worthy to achieve.


We’re going to connect potentially some spreadsheets. You know that I posted the Hierarchy of Wealth spreadsheet calculator on the website, as well as the Financial Independence calculator and other spreadsheets using some of the things I’m talking about. I’m hopefully formulating a way in which there’s a program created so that you can go through some goals, go through ways in which you quantify those goals, and subsequently start charting a path to achieving those goals. That’s where we’re going. Thanks for reading. It’s a shorter episode but I appreciate your attention. I appreciate your participation. Hopefully, you gained from these exercises and there will be more to come in the subsequent episodes. Head over to the website. We have some cool resources there. If you like what you read, give us a great ranking on iTunes because that always helps. Share this with your friends and family. That would be amazing. You are awesome. Thanks again. I’ll talk to you next episode.

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Strategic Ways To Change Our Habits And Belief Systems with Connor Boyack

TWS 60 | Changing Habits


As adults, we have developed a threshold over the years that makes it more challenging to make adjustments in our habits. Whether we realize it or not, we are, on a daily basis, influencing our children and what they believe about themselves. However, this incredibly disruptive time has got us shaking out of our routines and patterns enough for us to change our habits and belief systems. On today’s show, Patrick Donohoe brings back Connor Boyack to talk about strategic ways to change our habits and belief systems, especially concerning our health and finance, love and relationships, freedom and liberty, and other ideas. Connor is the author of the Tuttle Twins book series, which has impacted how parents view the world.

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Strategic Ways To Change Our Habits And Belief Systems with Connor Boyack

Thank you for reading part two of my interview with Connor Boyack. I intentionally took a week to think about what I would say in this introduction going into some good points that Connor and I go through as it relates to kids, kids’ influence and specifically, parents and how they convey their belief systems, their physical habits in part to their kids. I came across a quote by Aristotle. It’s one that everyone repeats quite often, but it’s still profound. It’s, “We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence is not an act, but a habit.” I thought a lot about habits. I believe that habits are mostly carnal. Most people, if they could snap their fingers and change a habit, they would, but it’s essentially something physical.

As I look at my experiences mostly with Tony Robbins events, it’s like our body craves systems and habits, because it wants to conserve energy. It wants to spend energy in the most meaningful places. It happens on a subconscious level. At the same time, there’s an unintended piece, which is when there’s a habit that we don’t like, we find it challenging to overcome and replace with a new habit. A perfect example is health. Most people want to be healthier and we know what to do. All the education information exists and that relates to business, finance and to anything.

What it causes us is to stay in the same place and not make those changes because it’s carnal and embedded in us. Typically, it’s a function of change. A change of a significant habit is a function of drama or trauma. Drama is like your husband or wife says, “I want a divorce,” or you come home and all their stuff is gone or you get fired from a job or you are one-upped by a colleague. It also is a trauma. A car accident, a heart attack or something physical, which shakes us. It disrupts the patterns and habits that we have and put us in this position where staying the same is more painful, more strain is there than making the appropriate and necessary changes.

That strain is less. Those typically do not happen strategically. They happen by circumstance and happenstance. At the same time, my experience has been, if you truly want to change a habit, there is a strategic way to do it, but most people don’t realize that it has to be very psychological and very physical. I’m going to invite everybody again. I invited everybody to one of Tony Robbins’ events, regardless of your opinion of him, it’s a very crazy, physical experience, but it’s intentional. What it does is it helps you and there is an Aristotle quote which it allows you to give up your past to you and sacrifice it in gain or in part to get closer to who you’re meant to be.

Those events allow you to think deeply, but also have a physical experience in which you can process what you want, what you’re currently doing and what you need to do. It helps disrupt that physical sense, your physical body so that you are in the prime state to be able to make the appropriate changes. It’s virtual. It’s in November 2020. There were almost 30,000 people for the first one. He did it virtually. He did a business one that I talked about a few episodes back. The Unleash the Power Within which is the event that I invited all of you as my audience, it’s going to be virtual in November 2020.

My experience is that with adults, we’re somewhat masochistic, we have a threshold of pain and strain. We’ve developed that over the years and that makes it a little bit more challenging to make adjustments in our own habits. However, when we make the connection between our habits, our belief systems and our children, something changes. Anything that compromises a child is something that in society does not accept whatsoever. An adult can be assaulted or beat up or hurt. There is a near as much response to that as if it were a child. That goes, subconsciously or unconsciously. What that means is you could do physical harm, but also when you realize that you are on a daily basis influencing your child, what they believe about themselves, what they believe about their life, what they believe about what’s possible for them.

It’s incredible that these subtle things over the course of time form those belief systems and habits in them. I look at 2020 being an incredibly disruptive time and it’s shaking us out of our routines. We had a massive wind storm in Utah that blew these huge trees down like 50 or 60 or 100 years old trees with huge roots. It destroyed everything. It knocked down a bunch of stuff at our house. We’ve been up at our little cabin in the mountains roughing it. As if 2020 wasn’t disruptive enough, we’ve had an earthquake, COVID-19 stuff and this massive hurricane-type wind impact on us.

We’re being shaken. We’re being disrupted with these pattern interrupts. They allow us to think differently about life. Now is a season where our kids are going back to school and we are starting a new year. I believe that taking back control over where our influence is over our children, is something that we can do and oftentimes, that right there is enough for us to change our own habits, belief systems about health, finance, love and relationships, freedom, liberty and other ideas.

Staying the same is more painful than making the appropriate and necessary changes. Click To Tweet

We are in a swarm of different ideas and opinions. Ultimately, whatever your belief system is or opinions are, I believe that we have stewardship as parents, as grandparents and as leaders. Anyone, family members that have influence over children, I believe we have a stewardship to convey to them the things that we have discovered positively about life. I hope you gain a lot from this interview. I hope you take advantage of some of The Tuttle Twins literature. It’s amazing. Connor also has a digital course. Thanks again and we’ll see you next time for another episode. Until then.

This is probably a good transition point because it’s interesting. We’ve done a lot more webinars and trying to talk to people and understand where they’re at and what’s going on, so we can figure out ways to provide value. It was interesting as we’ve looked at all different topics and this is for my other company, but we found an overwhelming difference in the number of people that engaged with content, as it related to their elderly, aging parents and to their children. I find it interesting because I think these are very carnal ways in which we’re reacting to these circumstances. You go through Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and there are other models that explain human behavior and the different tiers and levels.

When it comes to your survival, you’re going to do anything and most of it is not rational. It’s all like instinct, “I have to survive.” Then you get to the upper levels where it’s safety, then to relationships, then to self-interest, then to the more spiritual self-actualized role. Most people aren’t even close to that. They are in those lower levels. You look at what people care about and it’s their parents, family, and children. I look at some studies I’ve read through where it solidifies that a lot of how a person looks at life and forms their belief structures happens before the age of fifteen. It is where they observe or they’re taught directly and they are influenced, whether it’s by their family or peers or community, and that is what they carry out throughout their entire life.

Things and circumstances can change, but for the most part, a lot of their belief structures start there. What I find fascinating about the way in which you’ve approached the principles of liberty, and maybe you can speak to this because we haven’t talked about it before, where the books that you have written are directed toward children. It is about these two, a brother and a sister, twins who have all of these different experiences that highlight a lot of the principles of prosperity that you believe in and principles of liberty, but the parental learning as a result of that is something you’ve spoken to before. Maybe talk about the difference that those books have made. I don’t know if you did this by design, or it was unintentional where you made your way into family’s lives based on promoting children’s education and teaching principles, but impacted the way in which parents view the world.

That was totally unintentional. The parents became a secondary market after we started this project. Whereas like, “We’ve stumbled into this opportunity and this value-add,” I think for a lot of parents. Our books are called The Tuttle Twins books. We’ve got books for kids, for teens. We’re coming out with board books for toddlers and cartoon. There’s a lot of stuff that we’re building. We sold over one million books. We’re in twelve languages. In Brazil, we’re selling books by the thousands. It’s hazing off down there. It’s filling a void. When we started The Tuttle Twins series, the whole goal was we want to teach little kids, younger kids the way the world works, civics, economics, ethics, morality, not from a religious standpoint, but like the golden rule and human behavior and all this kind of stuff. This started because I am a dad and I wanted my young kids to learn this. I couldn’t find anything on Amazon that was already doing it. I’m like, “Here’s the opportunity.”

Many books into the series, it is amazing. Think about dopamine drips. People are watching reality TV or soap operas, and they’re addicted to this. I like being bathed in dopamine from every day getting social media posts and emails from parents either or sometimes both saying, “My kids have learned so much. The conversations we’re having right now are amazing,” and/or, “I’ve learned so much that I never learned in school. Why did I never learn this in school? Where has it been all my life?” Our kids’ books are all based on a classic like Economics in One Lesson by Hazlitt or Human Action by Mises or all these different books. Ninety-nine percent of the adults reading our books would never read one of these original books.

They wouldn’t have the time or interest. They’re often written decades ago or more where the English are denser and we’re not used to that style anymore for better or for worse. These books simplify things and help parents who are stressed and busy sit down with their children and have this shared learning opportunity. Have some discussion questions at the end that they can go over together and then the recollection comes later where they’re in the grocery store and they’re like, “There are 83 kinds of potato chips. Now I understand why.” Specialization, division of labor, spontaneous order, all these kinds of terms where kids through our storytelling books are learning about these things and finding ways to apply them so that they can better understand the way the world works.

As the author, people look at me and like, “You’ve made this thing. It’s been amazing. How will this impact?” With all honesty and truth, I honestly have no idea how we’ve done this. We’re like, “Let’s make some books and we’ll teach them stuff,” but there’s some kind of magic secret sauce that’s dripped into these things. Not of my own volition, where the response has been disproportionately, passionately positive, where even families who don’t agree with our political philosophy initially, or whatever is totally coming to our side of things. They are totally understanding ideas and glomming onto them just because of, I don’t know if it’s the simplicity, maybe it’s Elijah’s beautiful illustrations that are winning the day, whatever it is, we’re having a ball. I honestly feel the anxiety because the way the world is has diverted more of my energy into this project of late. I feel like, “I shouldn’t be sleeping right now. I should be making more content all the time because the demand is so high.”

The perspective that adults have is challenging to change unless there is a major disruptive event. 2020 has changed the way in which people look at life, society, themselves or their family to get what they want for better or for worse. There are circumstances where divorce rates and child abuse have spiked, but at the same time, you do have families becoming stronger. You have people being friendly with their neighbors. There are lots of positive and negative, but at the same time, this solidifies the idea behind the capitalist mentality, where it’s not about being rich and wealthy, it’s about finding ways to take who you are and bring value to the world.

TWS 60 | Changing Habits

Tuttle Twins book series

That’s where it starts. There’s a lot of experimentation. Sometimes it works. Oftentimes, it doesn’t work. That’s where you’ve written some amazing books previous to The Tuttle Twins, which are good books. Feardom is one of my favorite reads, but yet The Tuttle Twins made an impact where that wasn’t necessarily the original objective. That’s how things work sometimes. Connor, why don’t you give us some case studies? Give us some things that have happened during the summer, during a very volatile time that relates to ways in which families have benefited from reading The Tuttle Twins or consuming some of the other stuff that you have digitally.

In our books, we have our economic curriculum as well. That’s at What’s been interesting is many more parents are homeschooling. This has been all over the news and it looks like homeschooling is probably going to triple in the United States, I think it’s where things are landing now that everyone’s heading back to school. We’re seeing if people are going to change their behavior, not just say they might, in response to a poll. From all the data I’ve seen, it appears that we might triple. That’s millions of kids embarking on this new experiment. These families are clamoring like, “What do I do? What do I teach them? What are the resources? What are the curriculums?”

They’re hungry for material trying to figure out what to do. We’ve nearly tripled our sales since the beginning of the shutdown. We’ve had to try to keep up with everything. It’s been a strong demand. With that increase in volume, we’re getting way more social media posts and stories from families. The interesting thing to me is we get a lot of families who say they have a dyslexic child who won’t read any of their books but will read The Tuttle Twins book. I had a parent tell me about their kid who has massive ADHD and this is like the only books they’ll read. I had one dad say his daughter will only read Barbie books, but then she’ll also read The Tuttle Twins books.

I enjoy hearing from parents like that because it’s like testimonials. It’s like going to church and having everyone say, “Hallelujah. God is good,” and all these things. Here, everyone’s sending me emails and saying, “Connor is good. The Tuttle Twins is good.” I need to keep that ego down and be like, “It’s not me. There’s some other magic here.” What’s amazing to me about it all is like, we’re seeing many parents realize that they can’t wait for the schools to do this anymore. I think the collective failure of the freedom-minded people, however, you want to describe that movement or group is that they have delegated to the schools, the responsibility for their children’s education and with those ideas about civics and economics.

If you send your child to a socialist schooling system because the public school system is inherently a socialist system. Everyone pays for the benefits of a few and redistribution of wealth within that system and everything else, not to mention all the collectivists’ things within the school, that permission to go to the bathroom, batching people by age, regimenting your schedule and everyone on the same conveyor belt. There are all these issues for better or for worse and that’s not the same thing. There are teachers in the system who are often extremely well-meaning, but the system itself is structured. If you send your child to such a system, can you expect that they’re going to learn the evils of socialism or collectivism? The downsides, the opposing sides or even a simple exposure.

There’s a pastor whose quote I once read. He said something to the effect of, “Can Christians expect to send their children to Caesar’s schools and not have them return as Romans?” That encapsulates the idea, even from a political side. Can we expect as freedom-minded people who may have concerns with socialism to send your children to the public school system and learn anything other than the fact that government is great, it solves all these problems and there have never been any problems with socialism or anything else.

What we’re seeing is an awakening of so many more families realizing whether it’s because of the school shutdowns or the mask mandates or the economic conditions or simply the authoritarianism that has run rampant with all these executive orders and governors flexing their muscles and doing everything. There’s this awakening of many more families being like, “What happened to America I once knew?” They think about like, “What are kids learning these days? What are my kids being taught about the way things used to be in America or the ideal of America?”

They start to account for the fact that, “My kid’s school doesn’t teach any of that. How can I assume that burden?” It’s that transition from the delegation to the schools, to the assumption of responsibility that we are seeing a ton of parents now have that awakening and be like, “I’ve got to do this myself,” but then naturally like any good parent who’s busy and stressed and doesn’t know everything about everything, they search online or go on a Facebook group and they’re like, “Help. What do I do?” That’s where we try and step in and say, “We’re here to help.”

There are many different resources out there, but ultimately if the environment is the same, then there’s no need to change, but there is a necessity. The disruption is great that people are seeking other alternatives. At the same time, it’s a bitter pill to swallow. Especially, those who have been raised or have sent their kids to the educational system that for the most part, people associate with good. It’s good to be educated. It’s good to go, learn, socialize and being told, “Our school system is Prussian-based and it was originally designed to train the military and factory line workers.” People don’t like hearing that because they are associated with doing something wrong. At the same time, that’s reality. I look at education and how influential it is.

Right now, there is a disruption so great that people are seeking other alternatives to be educated. Click To Tweet

It’s that pre-fifteen-year old influence that creates the framework in which we view the world. It’s hard to look at things differently. One of the exercises I did to try to get through to my kids is I walk them through the economics of it where, “You go to school, get a job, graduate from school. Here’s the average college debt, the average mortgage, the average car payment, the average cell phone.” We did all the accounting and all the taxes are taken out and there’s hardly anything leftover and then you go to a graduate degree. Even though the salary is bigger, what that equates to when it comes to lifestyle is a car with leather and another bedroom or two. What that did is they started to be intrigued by, “That’s how? No, that can’t work that way.”

I have two teenagers and a six-year-old. The six-year-old even started to understand it. At the same time, as there is divisiveness when it comes to wealth inequality from an education standpoint, that’s another one of those difficult things to tackle. At the same time, a lot of our clients, readers and the audience have raved about you, your books and they talk about how much it changed their life. It takes that slight paradigm shift, that little seed that opens the door to a new reality and that reality allows you to look at things more critically. It allows you to weigh both sides as opposed to gravitate to the side that seems to align with people that are like you. That’s where I see our society. It’s going into such a horrible direction. At the same time, it’s exciting because typically when you have that much disruption and contention, it’s going to cause people to step back and think and hopefully be awakened to a better perspective. Hopefully, one that leads them to more happiness, more fulfillment and more wealth.

What I like about the story you share too is that you’ve got teens and then you’ve got a six-year-old, and even the six-year-old can understand. I think many parents for a long-time have assumed that these are not issues for children. Maybe, once they’re teenagers or about to head out of the home, we can have a conversation like this if the adult parent even feels up to the task of having those conversations themselves, but what we’ve found and I think to some extent, largely proven with The Tuttle Twins is that even these younger kids can understand these complex ideas, social, economic, and civic ideas. As long as you’re explaining it to them in the right way, you’re giving some examples or maybe giving them a little profit incentive, doing a little lemonade stand or whatever, but young kids can understand these old, big and complex ideas if you present in the right way.

That’s something I’ve been blown away at is the response that people are giving us about how their kids are not only reading the books and understanding, but recalling, and then applying these ideas and seeing when they’re watching the news or hearing about some social media thing or whatever. They’re making these connections with these ideas that they’ve learned about. It’s mind-boggling to me the young age at which kids can understand these ideas. It’s incumbent upon us, as you say, within that first fifteen years where those ideas are formed and people set their foundation largely in place to make sure we’re pouring some good concrete for them and not throwing in whatever rocks we can and like, “We’ll deal with it later.” For those of us in the freedom movement, I tell my peers all the time, “Everyone is waiting until these people become adults and then you talk to them because now, they’re voters but by then, we’ve lost them.”

We’ve left them to the left. We’ve left them to the collectivist to propagandize them in these schools and preach the wonders of democratic socialism and the abject racism of American history and toppling statues and 1691, all these kinds of things. If we abdicate that responsibility and if we don’t empower parents to counteract it in their own homes, we’re going to forever lose. We’re going to be playing defense. I like playing offense more. What we’re trying to do is get in there and help parents compete for the hearts, minds, affections and loyalties of their own children against all of those institutional pressures and the outreach that’s being done to try and capture that child’s mind for the future of our democratic socialist country. I don’t want that. I think we’ve got to invest in the future with our younger kids.

Kids these days, we do not give them the credit that they’re owed as far as what they see and the beliefs that are being formed. We don’t also recognize their intelligence, which is much different than the way even you and I were raised because we’re pretty much the same age. They live in a very fast society where they’ve learned to process information. They’ve learned to discard what they believe is malarkey and adopt what they think is true. Kids are questioning the educational system. They’re questioning what’s going on and the decisions that are made. I would say these objective ways of integrating education through books and fictional stories, but true principles allow them to extract that information in a more creative way so that it becomes real as opposed to these in one ear, out the other thoughts.

When you look at the world around us and how quickly those foundation is destabilizing, it’s a testament to the fact that there are these systemic problems, whether we’re going back and talking about the wealth inequality and big economic issues or even what’s happening with our kids and what they’re being taught in school and how we can help our kids understand these forces that aren’t new. These tensions have been there for centuries. They’ve been in other countries and other governmental systems. There are many ideas to learn from the past so that we can better apply it to the present. If our children are historically ignorant of the dangers of socialism and collectivism in the past, it’s no wonder why they’re going to embrace this shiny new object that promises to cancel all their school debt and all these kinds of things.

If they lack the ability to check those claims against historical evidence, if the schools have failed and even worse, if the schools are encouraging that opposite mindset, that pro-socialist mindset, it is all the more reason why I think parents need to step up and make sure that they’re inoculating their own children against that viral disease of democratic socialism. That they are doing their part to give them some resistance where they don’t often have any. That, in a nutshell, is why we do The Tuttle Twins to try and empower those parents, to engage that way and help their children.

I want to talk about what you have available for those that may have not been exposed to The Tuttle Twins or heard about that before, what’s a way they can get started? What’s a way that they can learn more about you, Libertas, but also learn about The Tuttle Twins and a lot of the narrative we’ve been talking about?

TWS 60 | Changing Habits

Changing Habits: Any good parent who’s busy, stressed, and doesn’t know anything about everything search online or go on a Facebook group for help.


Libertas Institute is our parent organization of everything. It’s the think tank where we publish a lot of material about current events and laws we’re trying to get changed and then we go about changing them. That website is For the parents that are interested in The Tuttle Twins books that we’ve been talking about, if you go to, you can use coupon, FORTY, and get 40% off our pack of kids’ books. We have eleven books. Each of them is based on a classic text and they cover a wide range of different issues. They come with free activity workbooks and then throughout the checkout, you’ll see other things that we have as well. We’ve got books for teens, which they were popular when we were kids, the choose your own adventure books, “If you want to go in the cave, turn to page 73. If you want to run away, turn to page whatever.”

We have a series of books based on that model, where the young readers, teens, and young adults reading our books can observe the different outcomes based on their political and economic decisions in these stories and observe what that’s like. We’ve got books for teens. In 2021, we’re producing like eight more books. We’re trying to crank stuff out and get stuff out there because the demand is strong. We’ve got a podcast as well, The Way the World Works, you can find that at We’d love to help even more families. I appreciate you giving us the platform as always. I love talking to your audience.

Maybe speak briefly as we conclude to the digital course that you have. It talks about the basics of economics.

All of our books talk about these issues, ideas and principles, but they don’t go into a ton of depth. It’s planting a bunch of seeds and giving some broad exposure to a lot of these ideas. It’s up to the parents to go deeper and talk to their kid about more stuff, read the original material and things like that. However, for free market economics specifically, we wanted to empower parents, especially because of the rise of democratic socialism and all these ideas. To help their kids understand the specific nuts and bolts of economics, not in a boring college Econ101 way with supply and demand, curves, and charts and all that stuff. It’s an economic way of thinking. It’s a way to see human action and why people behave the way they do and how that works and why it works. is where you can find that there’s a cute video with my kids that you go watch. That’s a fun little bonus. We had a lot of fun doing that little marketing video, but we call it Free Market Rules. It’s a double entendre because free markets rule, they’re awesome but the course also is like the rules of the free market, understanding the nuts and bolts. That’s a week by week content drip. You sign up and that week you get Unit 1 Lesson 1 and then every week you get some additional information to hold your hand throughout and bit by bit helps kids and usually, their parents learn the nuts and bolts about free markets.

Connor, you do so much good. Thank you again for taking the time. We had to do a follow-up to this because there are definitely some things that I believe people are going to respond to. Let’s do a Q&A follow-up.

It sounds great. Thanks as always, Patrick. I appreciate it.

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About Connor Boyack

Connor Boyack is founder and president of Libertas Institute, a free-market think tank in Utah.

Named one of Utah’s most politically influential people by The Salt Lake Tribune, Connor’s leadership has led to dozens of legislative victories spanning a wide range of areas such as privacy, government transparency, property rights, drug policy, education, personal freedom, and more.

A public speaker and author of 21 books, Connor is best known for The Tuttle Twins books, a children’s series introducing young readers to economic, political, and civic principles.

Connor lives near Salt Lake City, Utah, with his wife and two homeschooled children.

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The Wealth Gap: Identifying Inequalities With Connor Boyack

TWS 59 | The Wealth Gap


One of the most controversial topics today is the existing and widening wealth gap between the rich and the poor. Tackling this important conversation to offer a unique and even quite controversial view, Patrick Donohoe is joined by Connor Boyack, founder and president of Libertas Institute—a free-market think tank in Utah. Here, Connor gets into the significant wealth that has spun great talks about inequality from both sides of the political aisle to create divisiveness. He goes deep into capitalism, the billionaires that keep getting rich, and moving up the economic ladder. Follow along to this insightful episode to learn more about this issue we’re facing now in our society.

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The Wealth Gap: Identifying Inequalities With Connor Boyack

Thank you for tuning in to the show. Connor Boyack is an incredible man. He’s been on the show before. We’re talking about a controversial topic. We’re breaking it into two parts. The first part is going to get into the wealth gap that is significant. Wealth inequality is a theme that’s being used by both sides of the political aisle to create divisiveness. Right now, there are a lot of upset people. This episode, without the proper context, may upset you, so go back and read the last 4 to 5 episodes.

Hopefully, that will prepare you to think rationally about this sensitive topic. The drive we have to make a difference grow and be free is evident across most human behavior. Achieving that result is what I characterize and what I’ve tried to talk to you about as true wealth. The show’s mission is to help you identify sound principles that will guide you to achieve wealth and prosperity regardless of the environment or economic circumstances. Right now, it may not seem possible but understanding the principles will allow you to understand that it’s not the environment that creates that end, it’s principles, and acting on those principles.

Through this lens, these emotionally sensitive topics will inspire you instead of infuriate you which is, unfortunately, the way in which people are looking at this topic. My compadre, Connor Boyack, has dedicated his professional life and arguably because of some threatening experiences that he’s had his whole life to defending the principles of prosperity by being involved in the political arena here in Utah. Also, by expanding that into the world of literature and education with over 21 books, most of them through the children’s book platform.

For those of you who have listened to Connor before The Tuttle Twins books, I get comments about that more than anything else that’s coming from the show. Connor is going to give you a code to get these books. I’m offering something for the rest of 2020. For those of you who purchase the package and Connor is going to give an insane discount for all of the books or the online curriculum that he has, I’m going to match that. What I mean by that is if you purchase, I’m going to pay for another either package of books or the online course that you can give to somebody else. I’m going to do that through the end of 2020.

I hope you gain a lot from this. I hope you’re able to step back and think through some of the points that we make and that it enlightens you to understand the narrative but also understand how to have a productive, and meaningful conversation with somebody else about this topic. I hope it inspires you to understand how the world has improved because of the environment that we have in which people can start businesses. They can be free to fail, free to succeed, and how that improves everybody’s life. Let’s cut to the interview. Without further ado, this is Connor Boyack.

Wealth is not the natural condition in life. Poverty is the natural condition in life. Click To Tweet

He is the President of Libertas Institute, which is a nonprofit think tank here in Utah, but it’s also an educational organization. They promote through a lot of influence up on Capitol Hill during legislative sessions. They promote the principles of liberty but they also educate the public in many different ways. Connor is also the author of 21 books. It also includes a children’s series, which is incredible. It’s called The Tuttle Twins. Connor, welcome to the show. You’re no stranger here except for those that are new and new readers. Thanks for coming back. I appreciate your time.

I’m happy to be here. I’m excited to get into the issues with you.

This is a hot one because it’s something that’s been politicized. It’s being weaponized by different political parties. It’s the wealth gap. I’m going to read some statistics which I haven’t given you in advance I’m sure you won’t be surprised. This is given the federal reserve’s stats, whether they’re objective or not. I would say it’s close to as objective as possible. In the United States is $104 trillion of private wealth in terms of money. The top 1%, $32 trillion, the next 9%, $39.1 trillion, the next 40%, $31 trillion and the bottom 50%, $1.5 trillion. There’s a gap and the gap is shown to widen. Connor, I think we are able to have a conversation that understands both perspectives. When you hear these numbers, when you hear the narrative that’s used and how it’s weaponized and politicized, what goes through your mind? How do you process that?

I’m excited by those numbers, where other people find them repugnant and see an inequality that needs to be addressed. I’m conversely excited and that’s for an important reason. What would those numbers have been like a century ago? What would those numbers have been like three centuries ago? The fact that much wealth has been created has made it so that we all live like kings. Even that bottom 50%, the bottom 10%, even the bottom 2% live like kings compared to people a century ago.

The creature comforts that we enjoy that this wealth inequality has allowed wealthy people to amass capital, to invest in research and development, and come up with new innovative conveniences. The fact that Jeff Bezos is now going to be delivering our products by drone on the same day we order them. Packing the mule over the mountain with a couple of workers that take up a three-week journey to get to you and by then, half of what you ordered has been stolen or moldy. The fact that some people have gotten rich should not distract us from the fact that everyone has gotten rich.

Wealth is not a natural condition in life. Poverty is the natural condition in life. The fact that some people have become wealthier than others doesn’t discount the fact that basically everyone has become wealthier. Everyone has a higher standard of living and it’s this system for all of its warts and bumps and everything else. It’s not perfect. It’s this system compared to any other that has allowed for that massive creation of wealth and prosperity across all the demographics that you can imagine.

TWS 59 | The Wealth Gap

The Wealth Gap: The comforts we enjoy from this wealth inequality have allowed wealthy people to amass capital to invest in research and development and develop new, innovative conveniences.


I could have guessed that you were going to say something along those lines, even though we haven’t even talked about this in detail previous to the interview. I have some statistics here that I usually will find from an opinion and perspective research, depending on the perspective. It doesn’t make the news headlines that often but one of them is Matt Ridley. He’s written a bunch of books. The one that hit me the hardest years ago was The Rational Optimist, which is when everything was falling down and he wrote this book that said that the world is amazing.

Here are some of the things that he cited in a blog post. He said, “Extreme poverty has fallen below 10% of the world’s population for the first time.” It was 60% when he was born, which was in the late 1940s. Child mortality has fallen to record low levels. Famine virtually went extinct. Malaria, Polio and heart disease are on the decline. One of the least fashionable predictions that he made was the ecological footprint. We have been able to use more sustainable resources and be more efficient with the way in which we are attentive to those initiatives.

As far as the use of land and the use of water when it comes to producing food has dropped 100%. I can keep going on and on as far as how people are coming out of extreme poverty. Peter Diamandis is more on the technological front. He’s talked about the fact that we’re approaching four billion people with smartphones. Where people are getting connected, they’re getting access to information, education, and so forth. I agree with you. There’s a disease of abundance than there is of scarcity when it comes to living the way that we live now versus what life would have been 100 years ago.

I was going to add to your list before with the proliferation of mobile phones and so forth, access to banking or cryptocurrency, sending money around, transmitting to family members and other countries. The fact that Africa didn’t get into landlines and telephone poles and all the rest. They leapfrogged over that and now have like 95% plus penetration of cell phones, even out in these remote villages where they can access Wikipedia and suddenly any villager can learn from all of the knowledge in the world.

I was a missionary in Honduras many years ago and I lived in these tiny little pueblos for two years. I remember once a week, we would get an opportunity to email the family and say, “I’m still alive out here.” We do that at these internet cafes that were crazy expensive. They were rare. The internet was horrible. Now, the same thing as you pointed out. Everyone’s got cell phones, constant connectivity, connecting all the world, creating amazing remote work opportunities where people out in these villages can go on and say, “I can do graphic design. I can do editing. I can do translation and I can do whatever.” It creates all these economic opportunities that they didn’t have before.

I care a lot about issues surrounding charity and poverty. I don’t want to sound like I’m some kind of greedy capitalist. My wife and I focus and try to lift those who are in need and find ways to serve. I know of no other economic system that does it better than what’s often called capitalism because you have the incentive for these people to go and produce. That means the Jeff Bezos and the Elon Musk and others are going to amass substantial wealth but they’re not extracting it from anyone. It’s not a zero-sum game. They’re not forcibly taking it from people. All that means is they figured out a way to serve a crap ton of people because capitalism and entrepreneurship and business is service. It’s, “I hate pulling weeds and the fact that someone will come to serve me by pulling my weeds and we have an economic exchange, I can make it worth their while.”

There's more of a disease of abundance than there is of scarcity when it comes to living the way that we do today. Click To Tweet

That is still service to me because I would rather part with $10, $20, $50 or whatever than do the weeds. Having an electric car, having drone deliveries, or whatever the issue is. These people have figured out a way to serve a ton of people rather than a few people. In my mind, that is a system that should be praised, notwithstanding that. I do think it’s important that we still look at the inequality issues and figure out even better ways to help people move up that economic ladder. It doesn’t come from the traditional. Do you remember the lobsters and the bucket story? Where you put lobsters in a bucket and as one tries to get out, the other crabs pull down, “Let’s try and pull it down so we can get up.”

That’s not how the system works. We can figure out a way to build up more people. We don’t have to tear down the 1% and take more of their money and remove their incentives to serve even more people. We can do it in a way that empowers even more people and removes those roadblocks of regulations. Even people who want to start a food truck, they’ve got to deal with a nightmare of regulations to get their foot in the door and entrepreneurship to maybe do a food truck to then do three, to then do a brick and mortar restaurant and grow an empire of franchise.

If we have these regulations and other problems in the way that prevent the people on the bottom, if you’ve got money, you can make problems go away. You can be strategic and figure out a way around them. It’s the people on the bottom who don’t have those resources. They can’t navigate the system. They’re often trapped by the system that purports to help them and puts them on the dole and says, “Here’s some money. Go sit on a couch, watch Netflix and chill while we subsidize your inactivity.” What if instead, we remove those roadblocks that don’t have the capital and the network to circumvent on their own so that they can bootstrap themselves up and be able to go to work? There’re many stories of rags to riches that you can’t say that everyone who’s wealthy gets wealthier and everyone who’s poor stays poor. That’s not reality at all but I do think there are improvements we can make to help more of those rags become riches and give even more people that opportunity.

Now, let’s cross lines because just as much as we ourselves have rationalized this, not together but in probably similar ways, the overwhelming majority does not believe this way. Let’s look at their perspective. How do you sympathize with them? How do you understand why they’ve come to a conclusion they have which could be the diametric opposite of ours? How is that being politicized?

You may have seen the video of a Black Lives Matter leader protesting outside of the courthouse saying to the camera, and to the public that it is okay that we go loot these businesses, that we do these riots, that we bash in the store windows, that we take all these apparel, toys, electronics and everything we’re taking because they have insurance. There have been other Black Lives Matter protesters who I watched a video of one woman defending the pillaging of white store owners as a form of reparations because, in her words, it was the black community that has built that business and never been able to take advantage of the profits.

The downside there is, first of all, that’s not how insurance works or why it exists. I think the first comment reflects an economic misunderstanding. She’s trying to justify theft. The second comment was more interesting to me. This notion of reparations and this long-standing injustice that certain people have been kept down. They’ve been denied these opportunities and to that, I say I don’t disagree. There have been a lot of these problems. Zoning laws were instituted because of racism. It was a way to segregate neighborhoods and keep black people out of white neighborhoods. You still have those problems to this day. Zoning boards and city councils and others will perhaps not overtly or explicitly but they can hide their bias and use zoning laws to keep certain people down and prevent them from having commercial activity in their neighborhoods or from integrating into other parts of the city or whatever.

TWS 59 | The Wealth Gap

The Wealth Gap: The fact that some people have become wealthier than others doesn’t discount the fact that basically everyone has to become wealthier.


It’s because it was illegal. They could have been fined. They could have been put in jail if they crossed those lines.

There are certainly these policies that have been in place over time that have been put in place but the tough thing I have with reparations is that you don’t have an opportunity to connect one-to-one. By that, I mean that maybe someone did something horrible 80 years ago or 20 years ago, or 150 years ago but how does that justify perpetuating the injustice by forcing someone else whose fault it is not to pay for the misdeeds of what someone else does? I sympathize. I want to help. I want to remove those roadblocks. I want to help everyone be able to flourish and have that opportunity. I just struggle with what some of the demands are where people look at that inequality, and they have this kind of aggregate perception that there’s this systemic problem. Therefore, we’re going to have a systemic solution, an aggregate solution that uses the sledgehammer and says, “We’re going to do this so that we benefit.”

In a way, that’s continuing the injustice that they’re talking about by perpetrating it on more people who are innocent of the misdeeds that they’re rightly pointing out in the past. It becomes a sloppy way. I sympathize with the problems, the solution is where it breaks down. That’s where I think if we can sit down and talk together and resolve this, maybe we’d come up with some interesting ideas. I feel like a lot of the people who speak out against inequality and who are especially vocal about it, especially in the past few months with Black Lives Matter and some of these groups, there’s a bit of an economic ignorance there and perhaps political collectivism where they’re trying to force these solutions on other people. Thereby, they become the perpetrators of the injustice they’re speaking out against.

You have this balance between very strong deep-seated emotions that go back generations. It goes back culturally. That’s when we start out talking logically about the wealth gap, it’s provable. At the same time, people aren’t going to sit back and say, “You’re right. I should think about things differently.” People have these deep-seated emotions that reinforce a perspective. For me, I try to sympathize and empathize with that. I look at some of the extreme things that human beings to this day still do to one another, do to children, do to women and do to the minorities. It’s sickening.

At the same time, you look at history and it’s always happened that way. I look at what do we do now with the “civilized society” that we supposedly live in so that the political sphere is not injecting these cheap, slighted, and shallow emotions into the narrative to gain political capital? What do you do? How do you reconcile all of this? What’s the solution because you have these deep-seated things that are not going to go away and then you have these rational things that we can show, the rich and wealthy people have created much as it relates to our lifestyle?

We use the same internet browser as Jeff Bezos. We have the same iPhone as Bill Gates. They’re not living much of a different lifestyle other than maybe the car they drive and where they go on vacation. It’s not much different. How do you reconcile this, Connor? You’re amazing at taking divisive topics when it comes to liberty and teaching people through books, through education but also promoting principles on Capitol Hill and being influential to lawmakers who clearly have one perspective. They lean toward a party. How do you reconcile all of it?

The market doesn't like uncertainty. We need to have some kind of predictability. Click To Tweet

This one is tough because over the past several months during the shutdown and everything, I’ve been talking to folks about these issues. I feel like among people who are more free-market minded, conservative, libertarian, Republican, whatever you want to call it, there’s a lot of unease in the sense that people have long felt on the foundation of society and their principles and whatever. The degree to which these riots have happened, killings, lootings and all these kinds of things, the way society and culture has been changing as a result of all these events. A lot of these people I’ve talked to have felt uneasy like those footings, the foundation of society is shifting underneath them and they feel that there’s this instability where they don’t know how to act. They don’t know how to step forward. If the ground is loose, how do I know that’s a sure footing so that I can move forward with my life?

There’s absolutely risk and the market doesn’t like uncertainty. We need to have some kind of predictability and this is a tough question for me because how do you forecast things? How do you offer a solution and try and figure out what that approach is? What I’ve seen a lot of families do is think about turning inward. It’s like the story of a tree. When there’s a drought or something to conserve resources, the tree is not going to grow that year. You look at the rings of the tree and when they’re tight like that, that’s during a year where it didn’t have growth. It was in survival mode.

It feels like a lot of families are in that mode right now where they’re trying to say, “How do I talk to my kids about these issues? What do I think about these issues? What voices do I trust?” I’ve seen a lot of these people shift from engaging online or community activism or going up to the Capitol or trying to change the world to say, “I’ve got to protect my family. I’ve got to figure out what we’re going to do and how we make sense of this.” Not only economically, like how’s our job doing but also, if society can shift this much where we’ve got shutdowns, mandates and “Karens.” We have this culture now of shaming one another like, “You’re insufficiently compliance. I’m going to call the cops on you.”

We haven’t had that before in our society. We have riots, lootings, all these blue states and Democrat mayors, letting these people run amok destroying businesses and government buildings. We’ve seen that in Eastern Europe. We’ve seen that in some parts of Asia and Africa and elsewhere. We’ve never seen that in America. That shift is disconcerting to a lot of people. I even feel this way, partially myself, where I struggled to figure out, “Is there anything I should be doing or can be doing right now that I’m not or should I be trying to maintain my balance so that when the ground solidifies a bit more, then I’m ready to move forward?”

Things seem to be changing quickly for a lot of people. I think it’s rational to be like, “I need to wait this out and see where things land.” We’ve shifted a lot. I’ve shifted personally, a lot of my energy into our children’s books, and helping families get material to have these deep conversations and talk about these ideas. It seems like that’s where an investment right now is going to yield a lot of dividends in the future, as opposed to on the policy side of things trying to figure out where to step when the ground is shifting.

I hope you enjoyed part one of this two-part interview. Come back for part two. This is where we get into education. We get into inspiring, influencing and helping kids understand the environment and how to essentially change their life with some simple tweaks. Connor has made some amazing resources available. I’m going to match through the end of 2020 any purchase you make with his steep discount, allowing you guys to give that as a gift to somebody else. Check out all those details on Thanks again. Don’t forget to tune into the next episode.

Important Links:


About Connor Boyack

Connor Boyack is founder and president of Libertas Institute, a free market think tank in Utah.

Named one of Utah’s most politically influential people by The Salt Lake Tribune, Connor’s leadership has led to dozens of legislative victories spanning a wide range of areas such as privacy, government transparency, property rights, drug policy, education, personal freedom, and more.

A public speaker and author of 21 books, Connor is best known for The Tuttle Twins books, a children’s series introducing young readers to economic, political, and civic principles.

Connor lives near Salt Lake City, Utah, with his wife and two homeschooled children.

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The Wealth Mindset: The Difference Between Being Wealthy And Being Rich

TWS 58 | Wealth Mindset


Mindset is what differentiates being wealthy from being rich and mindset is not a buzzword; it is something concrete, something you can take action upon. We are so used to thinking that success is dependent on strategy and tactics. We want the shortcuts. We want a step-by-step formula that we can follow to the letter. But all the brilliant strategies and tactics in the world will not give you what you want if you are not in the right state to experience a wealthy life. Ultimately, success is a function of you – of how you perceive, optimize and utilize what you have at this very moment. Listen to Patrick Donohoe as he explains why so many of our beliefs around wealth and success are turned on their heads and how we can put ourselves in the right state to build efficiency around what we have at this moment.

Watch the episode here:

Listen to the podcast here:

The Wealth Mindset: The Difference Between Being Wealthy And Being Rich

It’s been fun for me to talk about what’s on my mind, what I’m experiencing, what I am perceiving in the lives of clients and the business, and my general observations about the environment that we’re in. I hope you have found value in it. I’m going to wrap up a lot of those thoughts in this episode. I had the opportunity to attend Tony Robbins’ Virtual 360 Business Mastery. It’s an event I’ve attended about half a dozen times. It’s the first time in a virtual format. It was good and I want to frame the last couple of episodes with what Tony incessantly talks about, which is state, story, and strategy.

First, I hope you are doing well. I hope you are seeing the environment that we’re in and you’re finding opportunities. You’re finding things to be grateful for. You’re essentially putting yourself in the right mindset and state to capitalize on opportunities because it’s easy to get distracted. It’s easy to be frustrated. It’s easy to look at the environment and use it as a scapegoat for falling short of what you are trying to achieve, your goals, what you wanted for 2020, your business, your profession, and etc. As much as I look at those frustrations out there and potentially, they are more extreme now than before, in the end, it’s those things that we achieve and accomplish that are most meaningful to us. Right now is an opportunity to dig deep, understand what you want, what you want to achieve, and then find within you the strength to pursue and overcome what those challenges are, which stand in the way of getting what you want and achieving the life that you want.

I know that’s why you’re here. I have titled this episode Being Wealthy Versus Being Rich because there is a difference. Being wealthy is finding the opportunity to live life at a high level whether things changed or not, and regardless of the environment. It’s understanding that deep down in our day and age, there’s so much to be grateful for. There’s so much that we are able to experience. Oftentimes, we succumb to this disease of abundance where we forget and have this short-term mentality of how we live versus those that live 50, 60, 100 years ago. I believe that being able to find that opportunities are an interesting paradox. The more you’re in that mindset, the more likely you are.

The mindset of being content, satisfied and happy with where you’re at, with what your life is about, whether things changed or not, that mindset is most likely to get you what you believe is the environment that will make you happy. I’ll talk more about that paradox here. You’re probably saying throughout all of these episodes, what does this have to do with wealth? Why don’t you just tell me what to invest in? Why don’t you tell me where to put my money and give me a shortcut? In the end, wealth is a mindset. The tools, tactics and products and these are what I find interesting. There’s so much debate out there regarding the difference between this product and that product. This has higher fees and this has lower fees. You should invest in this thing and that thing.

In the end, I would say successful investing and becoming wealthy is a function of strategy, but I believe strategy comes after you understand the mindset of what I talked about. It’s interesting, there are many people, whether it’s a real estate project that has been successful, whether it’s single-family homes, multifamily, industrial or storage. There are many different aspects of real estate and people advocate for one or the other, pros and cons, but there have been people that are successful in that area. You also had people go bankrupt in certain areas.

I had the opportunity to go to Southern Utah with my family and some neighbors. It was a huge lake. It’s the Grand Canyon that was dammed up. It’s called Lake Powell. It’s such a unique place. There are hundreds of feet of water and you have these big rock walls. The water is 85 degrees and it’s hot. It’s in the hundreds every single day. When we were there, there were these beautiful boats and it was a new brand. I know some of the executive team. I did not necessarily experience them with high favor in regards to their business practices years before. Typically, during 2008, 2009 when I knew some of them. Yet they had these beautiful boats and they are all over. They’re the most expensive boats on the water, only to come to find out that there were some practices that they had where there are lawsuits, embezzlement charges and several other things associated with it.

Mindset comes first before strategy. Click To Tweet

What I’m trying to say is on the surface, some things look like they are successful. Some strategies and products and investments look like they’re going to bring you success, but there’s so much below the surface that if you’re uneducated, you ultimately learn the hard way. Whether it’s business, stock market, real estate, commodities, gold, Bitcoin, and other cryptocurrencies, those products are important, but they’re not the most important. In fact, they’re the least important. We had several episodes in years past about the Rich Dad B-I Triangle. They talked about successful business as well as investment in the business. The least important thing in that triangle is the actual product itself. Yet that’s where all the focus is.

The State Paradox

For me, I look at what creates success and ultimately success is a function of you. That’s where I want to frame the context now with the equation that I’ve talked about in the past or the formula I’ve talked about in the past, which is state, story and strategy. State is a function of your language, your focus and your physiology. State is ultimately what everybody wants, but they think that some environment is what’s going to give it to them. “If this happens or if it weren’t for COVID-19, I would be this. If it weren’t for the stock market, I’d be this. If it weren’t for the job market, I would be this.” There are all these contingencies that stand in the way of getting what people want in their minds because they believe that strategy and environment have to align in a certain way in order to experience what people want, which is all internal for me.

That’s the irony and that’s why there’s a paradox. I believe that understanding yourself and your mindset, and being mindful of yourself, self-concept and there are other terms for it. The idea is the experience of achievement is a feeling. There’s a focus there and there are also words used to describe it. This is the paradox, being in that state is most likely going to get you closer to what you want or think you want, as opposed to thinking that what you want is ultimately going to give you this specific state. It’s a paradox in a sense because I believe that if you’re content, happy and fulfilled based on what you have without anything being added to you, it is most likely going to attract the things that you want. They will get you and grow you to the next level.

Emotionality Vs. Rationality

Hopefully, that makes sense. I’ve spoken to these principles in a couple of previous episodes. That’s where I look at whether it’s the parody of The Opposite George and Seinfeld or all the different paradoxes that are out there in relation to some of the most important aspects of life. It applies to money as well. That’s the difference between wealth or being rich. What I would say is when it comes to what you want, being in that state is going to help you to have the right focus, the right language in order to perceive the right strategy for you to get what you want. What I would say is, as I’ve mentioned in one of the episodes, a big part of wealth is winning those battles between your emotions, reality, logic and rationality.

There are such heightened levels of emotion regarding what’s going on. Elections are part of it. There are also states that are doing specific things. You have the debacle with the post office. What I’m going to do is I’ll use the example with the post office. What people place as meaning under the post office is that it should exist, be funded and get money so that there’s fairness in the elections. If you remove the post office, you don’t allow that to happen, then there’s somehow not going to be fairness and justice. There’s a couple of different ways to approach that argument. There’s an emotional side of things that typically aligns with a political party and how you think things should be run in our country, but then you also have a rational side of things. I would say that wealth is understanding both sides, then being happy whether it goes one direction or another direction.

If it goes one way or the other way, then your happiness is now contingent on something that’s outside of your control. With the post office and don’t confuse the former Postmaster General with me because his name is Patrick Donahoe. It’s spelled with an A instead of an O. How I look at what the post office as far as service is concerned is the amount of money that the taxpayer has given to them over the last ten years, which is upwards of $100 billion. That’s $100 billion that needs to be given to them because they’re not creating the revenue as far as expenses are concerned. There’s a $100 billion shortfall if you measure out all the different bailouts they’ve been getting over the last ten years and specifically the $25 billion.

TWS 58 | Wealth Mindset

Wealth Mindset: Being in a state of fulfillment gets you closer to what you want, not the other way around.


If you look at the service of the mail and what it specifically does. This is where there’s a proper role of government when you break down the fundamentals of it, but the government has taken this role in solving everybody’s problems. If you look at it going to the rational side of why the specific government was created and what its role is versus what it is now, that’s the rational side of things. There is so much emotion and I might even get you blowing up on me, unsubscribing, and giving me hate mail. That again proves my point where there’s so much emotion involved with these discussions that people do not peel back the layers of reality and rationality. Ultimately, the post office provides us with service in an incredibly unprofitable way. $100 billion of opportunity costs where that money could have either not been taxed printed by the Federal Reserve.

The private sector has solved a lot of those problems anyway. We can deliver things to people’s houses. There are some technical things involved in that, but look at what we’ve been able to do as a human race, especially in the last few years with technology. There’s so much complexity in the different innovations that have occurred. The iPhone 12 is about to come out. There’s so much computing power and so much below the surface of that screen that is brilliant. Sometimes you step back and think about what went into that and how was that created, all the different supply chains, materials, the innovation and the design. It’s incredible. The complexity of that shows that human beings can get together and provide a product and service that is way more efficient than typically a government can provide because that’s not necessarily their role

The rational side of things is what’s being displayed now, but emotions are attached to this argument because it’s associated with elections. Elections go into the different parties and then it goes into who’s right and who’s wrong. It goes into all of these deeper levels of emotion. I’m not saying from an emotional standpoint that this party is right or this party is wrong. Going into a rational conversation, you have to understand where your emotions are and specifically as they relate to potentially being wrong. Maybe there’s another opinion that might be important to understand. Having those stifled or muted for a moment to understand the logical side of things or even another perspective. If you can win that war, that’s true wealth. The last thing is having a lot of money and having a miserable life.

I’m going to use another example. There are more people that are planning on leaving California because of the proposed income tax hike, which taxes the wealthy, the higher echelon of society there because quarantine has impacted the lives of many people. At the same time, if you think about the rational side of things, the buzzword is justice, social justice, economic justice and wealth inequality. I’m not going to get into the details here because these are highly emotional topics and I’m bringing them up because I want you to discern between the emotional side of things and the actual logical side of things in order to come to a conclusion. Hopefully, in most cases, you realize that most of the stuff you get emotionally stirred by, affected by and influenced by has little meaning to the quality of your life which was fascinating to think about. I won’t go down that tangent. As far as taxes are concerned, the understanding that people are affected by COVID-19.

As individuals or human beings, we seek comfort. It’s natural for us. It’s part of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs. We see seek safety. What’s interesting is when safety and comfort are given to somebody without any effort on their part, what it does is cancels out the experience of comfort. It also robs the individual of one of the primary things that separate us from the animal world or the animal kingdom, which is our ability to rationalize, problem solve, think through things and come up with solutions. When somebody achieves, especially an achievement that puts their economic wellbeing in jeopardy when somebody overcomes that. They find another job, they move to a different state, they get training and learn something new and are now more valuable and get a different job. The impact that has on the human soul and what a person is able to feel about themselves and the confidence that they have, that is what human beings are capable.

It’s essentially being robbed by providing stimulus, unemployment benefits and a Band-Aid to what’s going on. I know some people are down and out more so than others. At the same time, you stifle the experience of life that’s most meaningful when you rob people of being able to figure out their own problems and overcome their own challenges. This now goes into the proper role of the government. Is it the government’s job to tax more and then give to those that are impacted by this? I understand the arguments on both sides, but my point is to bring up this high emotional conversation. It helps you realize how much that impact the quality of your life, especially when it comes to the things that you can’t control and don’t have much relevance to your specific environment and your specific life.

There are ways to be more efficient with what you already have. That’s where all strategy should start. Click To Tweet

That being the case, this goes to the state. You look at what you want from your life, where you’re at right now, and the gap between where you are and where you want to be. Inside of that gap is a state. There’s a story that comes from the different states that you’re in. Usually, the state is it’s the stock market’s fault or it’s my employer’s fault, or my colleague got a raise and I didn’t, and it’s not fair, or this happened or that happened. We always have excuses. We always have a story about why we’re not in the place that we want to be. That’s unfortunate but looking at a state shift, being able to change your state and there are three variables to state: different physiology, different focus and different language. When you start to use a different language, you start focusing on what you have, not what you don’t have. You’re able to think back on the times where you have achieved, overcome and succeeded. That then is going to be a different story and the way in which you perceive strategy, tactics and things to do.

I know all of you want shortcuts and want the things to do, want the strategies, want the tactics, but without state and story, those will rob you of the experience and most likely, it will not help you even if you did get them. I believe that most people with the wrong state and the wrong story will not be able to use strategy in an effective way to get them from point A to point B and overcome that gap. It’s natural for us to respond to the circumstances of life with excuses, “This happened, this person left me, this person cheated me, my employer this, my employer that, the government this, the government that, the president this, the president that.” When we started to take accountability for our life, that’s when our state can change and doors of opportunity open up to apply a strategy.

The Efficiency Formula

Now, I’m going to give you some strategy. I do tactics but I’m going to give you some simple ones as an example. Many of you had read the season I did on capitalism. If you remember Hernando de Soto, which I tried to get him on the show two dozen times. He’s old and was sick, but he wrote the book, The Mystery of Capital. It’s a fascinating read. I’d encourage all of you to read it. It’s written in a simple way where most people without an economic background can understand and benefit from. Capital comes from the word cattle. The reason why it comes from the word cattle, in and of itself a cow, he didn’t say it was where the value was. Capital is created as a byproduct of the cow. What that means is here’s the cow, now how do we optimize the different elements of a cow, the meat, the leather, the milk, it keeps going on and on, the different types of meat. My wife is from Mexico and they eat cow tongue there and intestines. There’s an optimal way to look at all of the different elements of a cow and essentially derive additional value more so than what’s experienced on the surface, which is just a cow.

It’s the same thing with petroleum. Petroleum was just oil. It was this nasty stuff in the ground that bubbled up and ruined crops for farmers. We’ve learned to make many different things as a derivative of that. That’s capital. What I’m trying to get to here is in your specific life, there are ways to be more efficient with what you have. That’s where I would start. That’s where all strategies should start. It’s not adding, but being more efficient with what you already have and deriving opportunities from what’s going on. Let me give you some examples. Interest rates have been extremely low and I was able to refinance all my rental properties. I have a small mortgage on my home but other than that, no personal debt. I carry mortgages on all my investment properties. I was able to increase cashflow by thousands of dollars by refinancing with very little money out of pocket. I was able to skip some payments as well.

It’s finding ways to be more efficient with what you already have. That’s a great example of doing that. If you have personal debt, refinancing personal debt and ultimately paying it off, student loan debt and car loan debt. It’s being more efficient with your cashflow. The second thing for me is being forced based on what has happened with shutdown and quarantine. You’re not spending as much because you’re forced to not spend in a sense. Many of you may have an Amazon addiction, but it’s looking at what comes in and what goes out. From a spending standpoint, I know that there are record levels of people paying off their personal debt because of this increase in discretionary income. That’s another thing, it is to pay attention to what’s coming in and what’s going out. I’ve referenced you need Budget, which is a software I use for my personal finances. Go over to the website, There’s a link there. You’ll get a little discount for signing up, but you need

Now that you have maybe some handle on where your cashflow is and an efficient spending plan, you’re going to find equity. You’re going to find the difference between what you make and what you spend. That’s cashflow. One of the things, and this is a very simple way of doing it, it’s a psychological shift, which is setting up a separate account. I call mine the Donohoe Family Fund and it has rules associated with it. Out of that fund, no money is spent on consumption. It’s all investment or putting money into a financial product. This fund is completely separate from your checking account and operational account. Sometimes people have found it useful to have those accounts at different institutions. I have mine at the same institution but what it is, is to separates. It creates rules around it and stick to those rules.

TWS 58 | Wealth Mindset

Wealth Mindset: Focus on what you have, not on what you don’t have.


Looking at that, when money comes into this specific account, I usually advocate six months of liquidity, whether it’s in a specific liquid guaranteed safe environment product, not a bank account but more of a product. We use insurance with my company, Paradigm Life, but even inside of this fund, it’s having at least six months of liquidity. That’s even before paying off personal debts. I would say having that liquidity, those reserves, there’s something psychological that happens when you know that you have money in the bank that can last you six months. There’s something that happens that triggers something and creates a level of safety and certainty that allows you to operate a little bit differently. You then essentially go through what to invest in and what type of assets.

There are two things I’m going to bring up. I’ve been working on ways in which we can do some online technology applications that are more self-assessment in nature. I’d love your help. One of them is specific to what I’m talking about. It’s called the Financial Independence Calculator. It’s in an Excel spreadsheet. I would love for you to access that. I’m going to ask for your email address because I want to request some feedback. I’m developing some software and getting some feedback from you will help with the whole user experience that people have. If you would download that, check it out. What it does is it gives you a Financial Independence Day. It is a function of your saving, your investment cashflow, as well as your ideal scenario in which you produce and work. I hope you like that one.

That’s a great first investment but there’s a second part, a second calculator called The Hierarchy of Wealth. This is something I talked extensively about in my book, Heads I Win. Tails You Lose. If you don’t have a copy of that, that’s also available for free, both the PDF and the audiobook in You can go to Amazon and buy the book or download an Audible book. There’s Kindle as well, hardcover, softcover, but this is a way in which you can get access to it for free. You can learn about The Hierarchy of Wealth there. There’s a calculator that they developed. It’s in an Excel spreadsheet. What it does is it helps you to identify all the different assets that you have and it ranks them in a specific hierarchy.

The hierarchy that I came up with is a function of risk and control and you will see that in there. That will help prioritize what I call your opportunity fund. Once you have money that goes above and beyond your liquidity, your six months or some of you may want 12 months or 18 months, depending on your comfort level and what gives you that feeling, that psychology of certainty. When there’s money above and beyond that, it becomes your opportunity fund. An opportunity fund is to make an investment. Making an investment, you want to know, “Where are the opportunities to invest?” What I would say is to understand where your other investments are first. That’s where The Hierarchy of Wealth comes from.

The Hierarchy of Wealth will help categorize all the assets that you have and then give you some insight into potentially where are some types of investments to think about first. For me, one thing I am adamant about regardless of where my investments are and how my assets are allocated. As I mentioned, Business Mastery by Tony Robbins. I’m huge about personal development and investing in myself to become a better leader and to understand business strategy, leadership strategy, operational strategy and financial strategy within the business. I believe that’s where the most control that you have and where you can ultimately find the best returns. I believe your business and your profession is what creates liquidity. That liquidity is then invested, which creates cashflow and subsequently degree of wealth, and more options when it comes to money.

This is a shorter episode but I’m glad that you are on. Please go to to access those two free self-assessment spreadsheets. I’d love to hear your feedback. That’s it for now. There are going to be some cool guests. One specifically is going to talk about education and what’s going on with our kids and options you may not have thought about before. We’re also going to probably get into some other libertarian type of topics. It’s going to get juicy. Thank you for your support. If you like what you read, head over to iTunes, Spotify and give the show a good rating. That always helps to get the word out. Share it with friends and feel free to share all these apps and other resources with your friends as well. I will talk to you next time.

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